WEEK 4: Marshall (1-2) Vs Carthage (3-0)

[JTFAN99]

Mav fans, after playing the best two teams in East Texas...I need to know...

Who better, Longview or Carthage?  LOL.   Serious question

[cotton84]

6 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

Mav fans, after playing the best two teams in East Texas...I need to know...

Who better, Longview or Carthage?  LOL.   Serious question

You trying to stir the pot…..LOL

[cowboyandchrist]

29 minutes ago, cotton84 said:

As far as "the ejection," both teams had a player ejected.....Thus, Marshall started running the ball quiet a bit better without that Carthage player in the game. 

54 did not get ejected, Surratt pulled him out. 

[Eagleborn]

1 minute ago, cowboyandchrist said:

54 did not get ejected, Surratt pulled him out. 

He should have been. 

[JTFAN99]

8 minutes ago, cotton84 said:

You trying to stir the pot…..LOL

I knew it would...LOL.  but its a serious question.

I don't believe just because a team is larger that means they are better. I have seem smaller public schools beat much larger public schools many times.  I really do think Carthage is capable of that.  At one point when Carthage was winning titles, I would have put  several larger East Texas schools over them...but not anymore. Its a two man race for best school in East Texas and I think its a close one.

So mav fans...who is it? 

Edited September 16, 2023 by JTFAN99

[SmoakyBandito]

36 minutes ago, The Real Mavfan said:

I will agree that both teams were at fault for letting it get out of hand. But it really ticks me off when people dont put any blame on their kids and have the mentality of oh its just the marshall kids when carthage was just as much as fault if not more so.

Everybody here has said it was both. To think Marshall played no part in it is dumb.

Edited September 16, 2023 by SmoakyBandito

[SmoakyBandito]

31 minutes ago, The Real Mavfan said:

They called penalties on both players but marshall was the only one ejected. At least that was announced.

The Carthage player never returned.

[Mavchamp]

1 hour ago, mavfanpanamacity said:

Marshall will do what we do. Finish 5-5, maybe 6-4. Somewhere 2-4th in dist, probably a tiebreaker for seeding and then turn in pads after first weekend of playoffs. 
 

the dist is weak other than Texas High. We have better athletes than the rest if the district so it doesn’t matter who the coach has been, results are the same. 
 

yes, we have a odd year where we win 2-3 playoff games. 
 

but until Marshall hires a disrupter as HC and that person doesn’t worry about being friends and buddies with the same ole power brokers in town.  That coach would need a Supt that tells all the power brokers to pound sand when they come for the coaches job after a year or so because the coach is building a program and isn’t playing footzie with them. 
 

only had the combination once in my lifetime and that was Supt Pat Smith and she hired Dennis Parker. She kept the wolves away after the first two years when they wanted to run him out of town. He kept to his guns on how he ran the program. 
 

the only other 1/2 of that duo was Rodney Southern as HC.  But the Supt wasn’t much help and once he reached some success in back to back state title games, the wolves were out because he hadn’t won one. So he caught the train out of town. 
 

maybe I will see a dynamic duo like that before I die, but when I see all the wolves at the field house and press box and on and on. The supt and HC just kee keeing buddies with them, I don’t have much hope in seeing it. 
 

just my 2 cents of being there and witnessing greatness and watching everything else since. 
 

peace. 

There may be some truth to some of that you say.  But meddling is nothing new… and it’s definitely not exclusive to MHS.  It’s probably more the norm than the exception. 

But I think it’s wayyyy more complicated and multifaceted than what you’re listing.

The dynamics of 5A and 6A football is wayyyy different now than it was 30 years ago. 

Demographics have changed.   Socioeconomics have changed. Rules for enrollment and open enrollment  and transfers have changed not only inter-district, but inner-district.  Loyalty has changed.  “Recruiting” has changed. The arms race for facilities has changed things.  Coach hopping has become the norm. Instead of leaving after 7-8 years, it’s 2-3. 

The chasm between inner city, rural high schools, and the affluent suburbs has never been wider… and getting wider more and more. 

Soo many reasons why we’ve seen most of ETX 5A/6A success dry up.   Marshall isn’t special in our fall from grace.  Look at Lufkin. Look at Tyler. look at Lee.   Texas high was abysmal prior to their dropping to Div II.  Longview has been the lone program to remain consistent. 

Laying all of this at the feet of busy body locals is short sighted. It’s a bigger problem than daddy ball. It’s a bigger problem than just coaching.  So many things have made it harder to compete at the highest level. 

Going to take a lot of changes to close that gap.  Money is part of it. Work ethic is part of it. Overcoming this white flight issue is part of it. Loyalty of players, fans, coaches.  Patience. 

List goes on and on and on.  
 

[SmoakyBandito]

39 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

You would be wrong. 

Not making excuses.  Both teams should be embarrassed about tonight. 

But that’s absolutely false about Marshall.  It’s a shame you feel that way. 

I am happy to be wrong. I can only go by the last 2 years these 2 have played. I don’t follow Marshall for sure. I guess it’s just these 2 teams bring out the worst on each other.

Edited September 16, 2023 by SmoakyBandito

[cotton84]

1 minute ago, JTFAN99 said:

I knew it would...LOL.  but its a serious question.

I don't believe just because a team is larger that means they are better. I have seem smaller public schools beat much larger public schools many times.  I really do think Carthage is capable of that.  At one point when Carthage was winning titles, I would have put a several larger East Texas schools over them...but not anymore. Its a two man race for best school in East Texas and I think its a close one.

So mav fans...who is it? 

Carthage fan here ……. Carthage does not have enough depth this year(especially with 5 guys on offense banged up/hurt) to beat Longview for a full game.  

[Aggie98]

17 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

I knew it would...LOL.  but its a serious question.

I don't believe just because a team is larger that means they are better. I have seem smaller public schools beat much larger public schools many times.  I really do think Carthage is capable of that.  At one point when Carthage was winning titles, I would have put a several larger East Texas schools over them...but not anymore. Its a two man race for best school in East Texas and I think its a close one.

So mav fans...who is it? 

JMO, this year's version of Carthage is too young to stay with Longview for the entire game. Last year's version of Carthage (and a couple of other versions) were good enough to go toe-to-toe with a typical Longview team. Longview would almost always have the size and depth advantage, but Carthage would X and O them to death.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Aggie98

[Mavchamp]

20 minutes ago, JTFAN99 said:

Mav fans, after playing the best two teams in East Texas...I need to know...

Who better, Longview or Carthage?  LOL.   Serious question

 he who stirs the….. licks the spoon  

Longview would obliterate Carthage. 

There is a reason UIL classifies schools.

No. It’s not easier for Carthage to win a 4A title than it is for Longview to win a 5A title.  They are both hard. 

And this is the dumbest annual conversation on Smoaky

[SmoakyBandito]

Just now, Aggie98 said:

JMO, this year's version of Carthage is too young to stay with Longview for the entire game. Last year's version of Carthage (and a couple of other versions) were good enough to go toe-to-toe with a typical Longview team. Longview would almost always have the size and depth advantage, but Carthage X and O them to death.

Agree. Not this year.

[nacdragon07]

Marshall has better athletes than the whole district??? I doubt that. 

[mavfanpanamacity]

25 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

There may be some truth to some of that you say.  But meddling is nothing new… and it’s definitely not exclusive to MHS.  It’s probably more the norm than the exception. 

But I think it’s wayyyy more complicated and multifaceted than what you’re listing.

The dynamics of 5A and 6A football is wayyyy different now than it was 30 years ago. 

Demographics have changed.   Socioeconomics have changed. Rules for enrollment and open enrollment  and transfers have changed not only inter-district, but inner-district.  Loyalty has changed.  “Recruiting” has changed. The arms race for facilities has changed things.  Coach hopping has become the norm. Instead of leaving after 7-8 years, it’s 2-3. 

The chasm between inner city, rural high schools, and the affluent suburbs has never been wider… and getting wider more and more. 

Soo many reasons why we’ve seen most of ETX 5A/6A success dry up.   Marshall isn’t special in our fall from grace.  Look at Lufkin. Look at Tyler. look at Lee.   Texas high was abysmal prior to their dropping to Div II.  Longview has been the lone program to remain consistent. 

Laying all of this at the feet of busy body locals is short sighted. It’s a bigger problem than daddy ball. It’s a bigger problem than just coaching.  So many things have made it harder to compete at the highest level. 

Going to take a lot of changes to close that gap.  Money is part of it. Work ethic is part of it. Overcoming this white flight issue is part of it. Loyalty of players, fans, coaches.  Patience. 

List goes on and on and on.  
 

Marshall is a one HS town, so not comparable to Lufkin tyler, etc

 

demographics have only changed in Marshall in 35+ years as far as the hispanic population has increased and whites have dropped some. That is not affecting the football performance. 
 

Marshall No longer competes at the highest level. We are middle of the road as far as 5A D2.  Marshall dropping to 4A and then 5A D2 should have been a homerun for Marshall in a one HS town. 
 

Money has zero to do with the state of the program. Marshall has the facilities, it has the athletes, it pays its HC very well   
 

White flight has nothing to do with Marshall’s issues none  

 

as far as recruiting, Marshall isn’t losing kids to other schools  They are actually gaining kids   There are 3 starters on Marshall that played at Elysian Fields in the past 2 years  1 starter that played at Waskom etc  

 

I am confident in my determination of the main issues at Marshall  I have watched it for 35 years   Same mistakes made over and over and the crew in charge knows this, but instead if fixing it, they would rather be in charge and when it doesn’t work, blame the coach (that they hired behind the scenes for the most of them)  but blame the Supt they hired for “making the hire”

 

I know for some they will never admit the issues as I laid them out, they will make list like above that really have no standing in the real issues  

and I am not trying to be a smart xxx to you or anyone else that thinks by making theses list of claims (excuses) that they are helping  It just keep the ones responsible from facing responsibility  

 

I am not posting anymore about it  Probably shouldn’t have in the first place as things won’t change, just same ole same  

 

have a good one  peace 

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by mavfanpanamacity
Spell

[mavfanpanamacity]

8 minutes ago, nacdragon07 said:

Marshall has better athletes than the whole district??? I doubt that. 

Everyone except Texas High. Year in year out, that is true. 
 

who would you think would be 2nd in talent year in year out. 

[JTFAN99]

26 minutes ago, cotton84 said:

Carthage fan here ……. Carthage does not have enough depth this year(especially with 5 guys on offense banged up/hurt) to beat Longview for a full game.  

 

13 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

 he who stirs the….. licks the spoon  

Longview would obliterate Carthage. 

There is a reason UIL classifies schools.

No. It’s not easier for Carthage to win a 4A title than it is for Longview to win a 5A title.  They are both hard. 

And this is the dumbest annual conversation on Smoaky

 

14 minutes ago, Aggie98 said:

JMO, this year's version of Carthage is too young to stay with Longview for the entire game. Last year's version of Carthage (and a couple of other versions) were good enough to go toe-to-toe with a typical Longview team. Longview would almost always have the size and depth advantage, but Carthage would X and O them to death.

 

Well...question has been answered...LOL.  Good luck both teams with rest of season.

[Mavchamp]

15 minutes ago, Aggie98 said:

JMO, this year's version of Carthage is too young to stay with Longview for the entire game. Last year's version of Carthage (and a couple of other versions) were good enough to go toe-to-toe with a typical Longview team. Longview would almost always have the size and depth advantage, but Carthage X and O them to death.

I disagree. It’s wishful thinking imho. 

I’ve attended so many Longview playoff games through the years. Seen them not only  beat teams they were not favored to beat, but dominate them.   Bigger teams.  Faster teams. More talented teams. 

Who do they lose to?  Lake Travis, Austin Westkake, Aledo…. Just crazy. 

Their title?   They were one of the smallest 6A schools in the state.  

They are simply another level. 

[JTFAN99]

6 minutes ago, mavfanpanamacity said:

Marshall is a one HS town, so not comparable to Lufkin tyler, etc

 

 

 

 

 

Lufkin is pretty much a one HS town...in terms of football.

I know longview is what everyone is trying to be, but Longview has had alot of things work in their favor to be where they are.  No fault of their own, but they have been blessed.

Hired a young excellent coach who has stuck around for 20yrs, who runs a system that is not overly complicated and gets the most out of their talent. 

Although they have went through mostly same demographic changes as other schools, the fact the other Longview schools are really bad in football and they have been very good, they are able to attract talent. This happens with all great programs. 

The other big east texas schools have either gone through several coaches, or have a coach that ain't as good as King.  But, that could be changing. Marshall has a good coach..although maybe not quite in his prime anymore, and JT I believe has a solid coach. Lee has a good staff too, but talent ain't there yet. So maybe things will change. soon.

 

[Mavchamp]

14 minutes ago, mavfanpanamacity said:

Marshall is a one HS town, so not comparable to Lufkin tyler, etc

 

demographics have only changed in Marshall in 35+ years as far as the hispanic population has increased and whites have dropped some. That is not affecting the football performance. 
 

Marshall No longer competes at the highest level. We are middle of the road as far as 5A D2.  Marshall dropping to 4A and then 5A D2 should have been a homerun for Marshall in a one HS town. 
 

Money has zero to do with the state of the program. Marshall has the facilities, it has the athletes, it pays its HC very well   
 

White flight has nothing to do with Marshall’s issues none  

 

as far as recruiting, Marshall isn’t losing kids to other schools  They are actually gaining kids   There are 3 starters on Marshall that played at Elysian Fields in the past 2 years  1 starter that played at Waskom etc  

 

I am confident in my determination of the main issues at Marshall  I have watched it for 35 years   Same mistakes made over and over and the crew in charge knows this, but instead if fixing it, they would rather be in charge and when it doesn’t work, blame the coach (that they hired behind the scenes for the most of them)  but blame the Supt they hired for “making the hire”

 

I know for some they will never admit the issues as I laid them out, they will make list like above that really have no standing in the real issues  

and I am not trying to be a smart xxx to you or anyone else that thinks by making theses list of claims (excuses) that they are helping  It just keep the ones responsible from facing responsibility  

 

I am not posting anymore about it  Probably shouldn’t have in the first place as things won’t change, just same ole same  

 

have a good one  peace 

 

 

 

I disagree with almost everything you said.

IMHO you’re downplaying some serious issues that most certainly affect not just football but all athletics for ETX schools.  

You’re completely denying some of the issues exist…. Which is part of the problem. 

And overplaying other issues. 

If you were to poll the fans of the 5A and 6A schools in ETX what they think the issues are… they will list many of the things I have. 

Denying them or ignoring them is part of the reason for the struggles.  Y’all have blinders on. 

Just have to agree to disagree.

 

[nacdragon07]

29 minutes ago, mavfanpanamacity said:

Everyone except Texas High. Year in year out, that is true. 
 

who would you think would be 2nd in talent year in year out. 

Talent or good team ? There’s a difference. 

[Mavchamp]

2 hours ago, THSfanatic said:

That is a HIGHLY partisan debatable statement

and absolutely no disrespect intended

 

He's living in a dream world. 

Thinks things are exactly the same as they were in 1988 when it comes to present day athletics.

Parker would not win state at Marshall right now.  Nor would Southern.  Or Coach KrunkDesoto or Tom Landry.

But please....remind us how it was done during the Reagan administration and pretend it would still be pertinent today. 

[Lion7000]

Bout what we expected. Carthage rolls .

[DAWG91]

4 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

 he who stirs the….. licks the spoon  

Longview would obliterate Carthage. 

There is a reason UIL classifies schools.

No. It’s not easier for Carthage to win a 4A title than it is for Longview to win a 5A title.  They are both hard. 

And this is the dumbest annual conversation on Smoaky

Lol.  Dawgs had exactly ONE competitive game out of 16 last season which is pretty much par for the course so I get why it's fun for some to speculate,  but myself,  I'll abstain.  Been there done that.  Have a great season the rest of the way!

Edited September 16, 2023 by DAWG91

[RogerDorn]

5 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

Do you disagree that we will be fine?

Disagree that we play a killer non-district schedule every year?

Disagree said schedule makes us better for district play? 

Disagree that I don’t think anyone in our district is at the level of Carthage and Longview?  And maybe Tyler.  They are all a combined 11-1.  

Disagree that a 4-0 or 3-1 record headed in to district occasionally instead of 1-3 would be nice ? 

I hope the Mavs get it going. It could be who they have played but it just hasn’t look the same imo and you mentioned the o line being young so that could be it also and they just need more snaps. They’ve looked good running the ball at times but passin game seems to be really struggling