5A Division I Region II Semi-Finals: Longview vs Lancaster

[HJR7]

With as much talent Longview has and for them to only have one state ring in Kings tenure I would seriously consider a new face. It's nothing against King I think he's a good coach,  but maybe a new voice and new style would do wonders in Longview. 2 years of gut wrenching exits in the playoffs. Just my useless opinion. 

[JohnnyFootball]

2 minutes ago, HJR7 said:

With as much talent Longview has and for them to only have one state ring in Kings tenure I would seriously consider a new face. It's nothing against King I think he's a good coach,  but maybe a new voice and new style would do wonders in Longview. 2 years of gut wrenching exits in the playoffs. Just my useless opinion. 

It might. And we might end up like a lot of other big east Texas schools after they lost their coaches. 
 

There are about 6 coaches I’d rather have over King, none of them are realistically coming to Longview. So our best bet is a huge gamble. I’d hate to be take that gamble given what we have, but clearly others disagree. 

[AledoAlumni]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

It might. And we might end up like a lot of other big east Texas schools after they lost their coaches. 
 

There are about 6 coaches I’d rather have over King, none of them are realistically coming to Longview. So our best bet is a huge gamble. I’d hate to be take that gamble given what we have, but clearly others disagree. 

"Ayahuasca (pronounced 'eye-ah-WAH-ska') is a plant-based psychedelic. Psychedelics affect all the senses, altering a person's thinking, ..."

 

Potentially could help with creative play calling. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by AledoAlumni

[JohnnyFootball]

1 minute ago, AledoAlumni said:

"Ayahuasca (pronounced 'eye-ah-WAH-ska') is a plant-based psychedelic. Psychedelics affect all the senses, altering a person's thinking, ..."

What’re you trying to say? Just say it

[AledoAlumni]

23 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

If we had D1 players transferring in every year like Aledo, I’m sure we would have more state championships too. But we don’t. 

Its not just about talent. There are a bunch of variables that contribute to winning state. You know this. 

[JohnnyFootball]

Just now, AledoAlumni said:

Its not just about talent. There are a bunch of variables that contribute to winning state. You know this. 

I do. Having talented players at that level certainly helps though lol

[AledoAlumni]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

What’re you trying to say? Just say it

I think you quoted me before I edited my post. It was a little to vague. But I support psychedelic therapy for personal growth. 

[HJR7]

9 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

It might. And we might end up like a lot of other big east Texas schools after they lost their coaches. 
 

There are about 6 coaches I’d rather have over King, none of them are realistically coming to Longview. So our best bet is a huge gamble. I’d hate to be take that gamble given what we have, but clearly others disagree. 

I'm sure there's some good coordinators out there, that would be great head coaches. I wouldn't look for a flashy or big name. I'd take a hungry up and coming guy. Again, I'm not bashing or saying fire King before Longview people come for me. I like King (Yes, I will keep saying that)

[AledoAlumni]

Just now, JohnnyFootball said:

I do. Having talented players at that level certainly helps though lol

Without question but fumbling the ball, missing assignments, false starts arent coaching. If that talent cant do their part then the team wont reach their goal. Other people blame Coach King and I agree with some of the criticism but its hard to call a ballgame when the players self sabotage. I am in the minority about the call at the end of the game to run the ball. I've seen more LV games than I care to admit when a simple run turns into a td or explosive play. Yet again, maybe dont give it to the kid that has fumble issues but its also on the kid to secure the ball. He knows its crunch time. 

[HearEmaGrowlin]

16 minutes ago, AledoAlumni said:

Without question but fumbling the ball, missing assignments, false starts arent coaching. If that talent cant do their part then the team wont reach their goal. Other people blame Coach King and I agree with some of the criticism but its hard to call a ballgame when the players self sabotage. I am in the minority about the call at the end of the game to run the ball. I've seen more LV games than I care to admit when a simple run turns into a td or explosive play. Yet again, maybe dont give it to the kid that has fumble issues but its also on the kid to secure the ball. He knows its crunch time. 

Well, the Lobos underperform often.

I would definitely take a chance on a new regime. 

[JohnnyFootball]

31 minutes ago, AledoAlumni said:

Without question but fumbling the ball, missing assignments, false starts arent coaching. If that talent cant do their part then the team wont reach their goal. Other people blame Coach King and I agree with some of the criticism but its hard to call a ballgame when the players self sabotage. I am in the minority about the call at the end of the game to run the ball. I've seen more LV games than I care to admit when a simple run turns into a td or explosive play. Yet again, maybe dont give it to the kid that has fumble issues but its also on the kid to secure the ball. He knows its crunch time. 

Yeeeahhhh that's what a lot of people keep forgetting (probably intentionally cause it blows up the idea that Longview players are infallible while coaching lets them down every year... something that's been the case since well before King was our coach). Even if King got "conservative" last year, Longview was going in to score and Tatum fumbled the ball. He didn't go out there and drop the ball, miss blocks, false start, etc. I guess you could say that he could've "fixed" that issue, but anyone who's been close to the game knows that isn't necessarily the case lol. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by JohnnyFootball

[JohnnyFootball]

37 minutes ago, HJR7 said:

I'm sure there's some good coordinators out there, that would be great head coaches. I wouldn't look for a flashy or big name. I'd take a hungry up and coming guy. Again, I'm not bashing or saying fire King before Longview people come for me. I like King (Yes, I will keep saying that)

Most Longview people apparently want King gone lol. I don't think anyone is going to "come for you". I may disagree with you, but I appreciate your perspective and opinion which is more nuanced than a lot of people.

What "hungry up and coming guy" do you think we should get? Everyone says they want King gone, but nobody has any realistic solution or answer as to who we should get as our Head Coach.

Then my second question- is it worth the risk? I've seen every other big East Texas program go from a state title to 1-9 in my lifetime (except Lufkin who's been 4-6 and was 5-5 this year) when they lost their head coach who won state for them. I know Kilgore moved on from Vallery.... And they've been strong since then but only about what Longview has been (just without the state title). People are asking our next coach to win state multiple times, right? Cause if we just get a guy who goes the state a few times, goes to the semifinals a few times..... We'll have made a lateral move at best. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by JohnnyFootball

[WolverBean]

1 hour ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Last night, maybe. But to Aledo the year before? Denton Ryan years before that? I’d venture to say they had more overall talent than Longview who had a few big players but not more talent in the aggregate. 

We clearly played with aledo last year we were up two scores like last night but king whatever reason Played conservative  in second half Mr nice coach 

Edited November 25, 2023 by WolverBean

[JohnnyFootball]

6 minutes ago, WolverBean said:

We clearly played with aledo last year we were up two scores like last night but king whatever reason Played conservative  in second half Mr nice coach 

I really don't think he was trying to "play nice". Even with being "conservative", Longview was heading in to score against Aledo and Tatum fumbled. 

Also, that has nothing to do with the fact that in the aggregate, I think Aledo was more talented than Longview. I guess I can look up numbers on which teams had guys taken D1. 

Heck, think about 2018. I know King went D1, Gorem-Welsh went to Oklahoma State, and Jesse Anderson went to ACU. Did our state title team have any other D1 players? 

[Mavchamp]

3 hours ago, Lobohooperstarter07 said:

Question, can someone explain to me how come we can’t be a powerhouse and win every single season or even make it to the state championship dang near every season like Carthage, Aledo, Katy, Allen, North Shore, Austin Westlake, Duncanville, Lake Travis, and like Southlake Carroll they use to be there every single season

And I don’t wanna hear an argument about enrollment, we have so many wasted seasons 

I can't answer the WHY.... if I could...I'd be rich consulting teams on how to win state.

But the bottom line......

Winning state is hard. 

That's why MOST schools have NEVER done it.  Being good isn't enough.  Of course you DO need to be good....but you have to be lucky too.  Lucky to not be injured.  Lucky to have good weather for 6 weeks.  Lucky to meet teams that play into your strengths and not into your weaknesses.  You need to not make mistakes....or you need your opponent to make more than you.

There are other factors......  Region II is annually one of the toughest in the state to win.  You aren't coming out of Region I or Region IV where you may not get tested until the semifinals.  I think most people would agree that regions II and III are considerably tougher than I and IV.  It is what it is.  What can you do?  It's not the UIL's fault that the Rio Grande Valley, West Texas, and the Panhandle haven't had serious contenders outside of a small handful of programs (Judson, Westlake, Permian, Trinity).  Meanwhile II and III are loaded to the teeth.

And sometimes..... you just lose to a better team.  No....I don't think that was the case in this game.  I definitely think Longview was the better team.  Last year I think Aledo was the better team (IMHO).  Think back over the last 20 seasons.....there have been times when Longview won when they probably wasn't the better team.  Won games they probably shouldn't have.  But they've also lost games they probably shouldn't have.  Which goes back to the first statement:  winning state is hard.

We all hate losing.....but calling a 11-2 season a bust.... I don't get that.  JMHO.

And TBH..... seeing how Forney is lighting it up..... it may be hard for anyone to beat the Jackrabbits this season.  Not saying they will win state....but they are looking awfully good right now.

Again......congrats to the Lobos on a fantastic season.

[WolverBean]

Maybe the coach from Bryant,ark he clearly knows how to win big games he did say he liked our facilities bar his coaching in Arkansas but still pretty impressive sure he could do even better with our talent?

[HJR7]

57 minutes ago, JohnnyFootball said:

Most Longview people apparently want King gone lol. I don't think anyone is going to "come for you". I may disagree with you, but I appreciate your perspective and opinion which is more nuanced than a lot of people.

What "hungry up and coming guy" do you think we should get? Everyone says they want King gone, but nobody has any realistic solution or answer as to who we should get as our Head Coach.

Then my second question- is it worth the risk? I've seen every other big East Texas program go from a state title to 1-9 in my lifetime (except Lufkin who's been 4-6 and was 5-5 this year) when they lost their head coach who won state for them. I know Kilgore moved on from Vallery.... And they've been strong since then but only about what Longview has been (just without the state title). People are asking our next coach to win state multiple times, right? Cause if we just get a guy who goes the state a few times, goes to the semifinals a few times..... We'll have made a lateral move at best. 

To that I would respond, Longview has had some of the best teams every assembled especially the 2005 squad absolutely talent every where.

[PantherNation2015]

5 hours ago, cotton84 said:

From the outside looking in, King runs a great football program - kids look like they stay in the weight room and they play extremely hard. 
Probably not going to happen, but probably the best thing for the Lobos for the next few years is for King to stay the head coach but give 95 % of the offensive game planning and play calling during the game to someone else. 

This

[WolverBean]

This been preached but we need a tougher non district schedule look at Lancaster their 9-5 and still playing marshall hell any etx team not helping us anymore but we want that flashy record does us no good come playoffs time I remember the days we would enter playoffs at 6-4 or 7-3 and have better playoff runs 

[EastTexasKnowItAll]

3 hours ago, LoboFan07 said:

You know I'm a massive King fan. I said back in the late 2000s and I've continued to say such.

That said, we can be at a high level and still have games come down to coaching. We can be at this high level and still question things that are going on.

King isn't going anywhere until he's ready to go. So people wanting that are just blind to situation. He is the greatest coach we have ever had, and he is writing his name into the record books with every single victory now on a state level.

But King has his faults, and it is known to every single Longview fan that watches every single game. There's a lot of playoff losses that we've had that the team was simply better. Pflugerville, Lake Travis, Denton Ryan. You go up against teams some times that you just do not match up well with.

Last night and even last year was not that case. 2022 was as write home of a state championship as you've ever seen in Longview lore. Everyone will say ohhhh it's Aledo. I don't care. We were up two scores and went conservative and got shut out in the second half. Do I think we're a state championship team this year without Tatum? Probably not. Are we a state semi-final team again? Certainly. Longview was dominating Lancaster in that first half, and guess what, we got conservative. Again.

1:00 to go and just like in the 2005 loss to South Garland, they give the ball to a sophomore for no reason. Difference this year, we gave it to a sophomore back that is known for fumbling. All he did last year on the freshman team was fumble. All he has done this year, outside of two runs this year, was fumble.

It's just mind boggling some of the decision making that goes on, and the play calling that goes on, when ever single person from the stands can see what needs to happen. First half, unreal play calling. Using the tight ends that we're known for. Trusting in your quarterback to move the ball. Second half, nadda. Let's run right at their biggest defensive guy every single play.

This idea that we could return to mediocrity though is just ridiculous to me. Longview was not mediocre before King. Were we making run like we have recently? Obviously not. But we weren't some scrub program. We were making runs here and there, we were in the district title talk nearly every single year. There's always going to be a chance with the next coach that comes in. But the foundation that King and company have set is very very high and has been done very very well. Maybe the next coach takes us to the next level that King has been on the cusp of for the past 20 years.

Again, King is a great coach. His level of consistency in 5A/6A football in East Texas is completely unmatched. But he deserves to get criticized just as much as the next guy when the ball is placed at his feet.

Is what it is. Onto most likely 6A, where for whatever reason we've had more success overall than we have in 5A.

Nobody tells you how to play your clarinet!  King has dumped more football knowledge in his toilet than you have ever thought about or updated on your word document you’re so proud of.  You’ve never contributed to a meaningful sports moment in your life.  Go back to your mom’s basement.  Time to move on to the next season and start bashing the next Lobo sports seasons and their coaches.  

[VonG]

7 minutes ago, EastTexasKnowItAll said:

Nobody tells you how to play your clarinet!  King has dumped more football knowledge in his toilet than you have ever thought about or updated on your word document you’re so proud of.  You’ve never contributed to a meaningful sports moment in your life.  Go back to your mom’s basement.  Time to move on to the next season and start bashing the next Lobo sports seasons and their coaches.  

Damn. 

[CHRHAS2007]

29 minutes ago, EastTexasKnowItAll said:

Nobody tells you how to play your clarinet!  King has dumped more football knowledge in his toilet than you have ever thought about or updated on your word document you’re so proud of.  You’ve never contributed to a meaningful sports moment in your life.  Go back to your mom’s basement.  Time to move on to the next season and start bashing the next Lobo sports seasons and their coaches.  

[CHRHAS2007]

I honestly think King just needs to bring in a more creative Offensive Coordinator. Who?? Idk but you got to take advantage of how the defense is playing you. It seems like sometimes he’s scared to open up the playbook for whatever reason 

[Grainraiser]

I seldom dip into these conversations but it seems it is the same conversation every year after a Longview loss. King has earned the right to leave Longview under his own terms. Even if you let him go what proven commodity are you going to replace him with. There are only a handful of elite coaches in the state and most of them are not going to leave their current program. In my opinion Longview only needs to do some tweaking to take that next step. Having a fullback in modern era football is crazy. Your taking away a playmaker when you do that. I would much rather them run split backs which the running back history they have. If they are going to have a TE that person should be used in 3rd down situations to move the chains. This is something that Rockwall does very well with their H-back. I would also signal my plays in from the sideline instead of having the QB go get it from the coach. The amount of time outs taken because the clock is running it down has been a problem for Longview as long as I can remember. I feel the Longview's pain when the O-line is constantly getting false starts at crucial times. Those are drive killers. When Coach Samples could not get over the hump he hired a OC and let him call the plays. The won a state championship the year they made the change. The worse thing a coach can do is refuse to change because his system is all he knows. Bring in fresh blood to give you a new perspective and never be afraid to tweak the system.

[JohnnyFootball]

2 hours ago, WolverBean said:

Maybe the coach from Bryant,ark he clearly knows how to win big games he did say he liked our facilities bar his coaching in Arkansas but still pretty impressive sure he could do even better with our talent?

Yet King beat him with one of our mediocre teams.