Paris and Paris North Lamar. Revolving door of coaches.

[Destry]

Would having 4 schools within 11 miles of each other have anything to do with success? That is a town of 25,000 in the middle of nowhere. Not including Clarksville and Detroit.

[GoBigBlue]

What happened to Scutter in North Lamar?  Always thought he would stick.

[LamarCounty]

2 hours ago, nationalpastime said:

Can someone help me out and remind me when anywhere in that area has been a destination for anything?  MAYBE the red hat on the scaled down Eiffel Tower?  I saw it over 30 years ago and apologized to my wife for wasting that time she'll never get back.

It's in the middle of nowhere so that means the breeding pool has been limited.  People there LOVE being there and are proud of it...they can't seem to understand not everyone in the world wants to be there (don't believe me? look at this thread).

Every couple of years this is one of those "if the right guy comes in and..." I'm past that.  I've grown up and realized that a coach can only do so much.  At some point the people that are in the area need to look at the common denominator and realize there needs to be some systemic changes that happen and that starts by looking themselves square in the mirror.

I don’t think the implication of this thread is “why don’t people want to coach in Paris, Texas”. I was mainly asking how come PISD and NL have such a high turnover rate compared to Chisum and even Prairiland. I think this thread has done a good job answering that and I asked around with people who would know and got similar answers. Paris the problem is the Athletic leadership. The problem at NL comes from principals and superintendents. I heard that admin basically live in the teachers classrooms at NL and find things to degrade them on. Neither one sound like fun environments to be in when the pay is terrible and you arent winning.

[nationalpastime]

3 hours ago, LamarCounty said:

I don’t think the implication of this thread is “why don’t people want to coach in Paris, Texas”. I was mainly asking how come PISD and NL have such a high turnover rate compared to Chisum and even Prairiland. I think this thread has done a good job answering that and I asked around with people who would know and got similar answers. Paris the problem is the Athletic leadership. The problem at NL comes from principals and superintendents. I heard that admin basically live in the teachers classrooms at NL and find things to degrade them on. Neither one sound like fun environments to be in when the pay is terrible and you arent winning.

A message board is one of the worst places to get credible information. The second worse is the local coffee hole. 

[SmokedOut]

21 hours ago, nationalpastime said:

Can someone help me out and remind me when anywhere in that area has been a destination for anything?  MAYBE the red hat on the scaled down Eiffel Tower?  I saw it over 30 years ago and apologized to my wife for wasting that time she'll never get back.

It's in the middle of nowhere so that means the breeding pool has been limited.  People there LOVE being there and are proud of it...they can't seem to understand not everyone in the world wants to be there (don't believe me? look at this thread).

Every couple of years this is one of those "if the right guy comes in and..." I'm past that.  I've grown up and realized that a coach can only do so much.  At some point the people that are in the area need to look at the common denominator and realize there needs to be some systemic changes that happen and that starts by looking themselves square in the mirror.

So what your saying is they need to find some new land to plow. Expand that gene pool. 

[JGlass]

Man, a lot of negatives on here.

Surely there are some positive things in at least one of those places, surely.

[nationalpastime]

3 hours ago, JGlass said:

Man, a lot of negatives on here.

Surely there are some positive things in at least one of those places, surely.

Yes. When you see it in the rear view mirror. 

[NETexas81]

4 hours ago, JGlass said:

Man, a lot of negatives on here.

Surely there are some positive things in at least one of those places, surely.

There are. I am technically not “new” here, but had to create a new account for some reason. Honestly, I am kinda blown away at some of the comments regarding Paris or respectively, PISD & NLISD. 

So, the boring technical stuff… Paris in general, is right at 25,000-26,000 (2024 est.), with the immediate surrounding neighborhoods at 4,000, there is no separation from the two, meaning you cross the street into the other. Paris is a town of really 30,000 people. There are three independent school districts within the city limits of Paris and kids within the city limits of Paris attend NL and Chisum, not just Paris. Paris is the largest high school and district, by a pretty wide margin and that margin has continued to grow over recent years as NL has lost a lot of enrollment. Prairiland is just a few miles outside of Paris. There are about 52,000 people in Lamar County and about 37,000 live within 5 miles of Paris. 

Lamar County also has one of the largest Per Capita Incomes in the North East Texas at $52,000 and a Median Household Income of almost $63,000 (2022 numbers). I wasn’t able to fully dive into those numbers, but that is higher than Bowie County, Gregg County and Titus County, but slightly lower than Smith and Hopkins Counties, for reference (txcip.org). Thought I would mention based on the comments that “nothing is there”?!?

Paris and NL regularly compete and excel in State tournaments (Paris more so but not worth an argument). There is an amazing amount of athletic talent in Paris. This may not always show in football, but overall, both schools are fully represented within their respective districts and to say that the “breeding pool” has been limited is quite the misleading statement. Especially when considering that outside of Tyler, Longview, and Texarkana, Paris is one of the largest areas in East Texas. I can speak more for Paris HS, but they have amazing facilities and excel overall in many areas of UIL, not just sports. 

With regards to the revolving door of coaches and open positions, you are dealing with isolated issues at each district. NL has seen a lot of issues within the school board and unhappy parents. They have had a loss of enrollment, NO investment in facilities (other than Fine Arts), etc. Paris on the other hand has had an increase and more investment in facilities. More payoff appearances. Their coaching “issues” are different ones. I think with NL, they truly are having an issue of agreeing on someone and someone wanting the job. With Paris, I think they get interest (maybe pay is not the best) but the program is pretty decent and end up getting someone from a much smaller program or someone that will not take the pay based on their experience elsewhere. Not really a statement on the school, students or staff. As someone already mentioned, when an AD leaves a school, there is usually a mass exodus that follows, leaving many positions open. 

With other comments on “Isn’t the only thing there, the Eiffel Tower”… I mean, all of East Texas is the same in this regard. They are all small to medium to large towns with a couple of places like Tyler that feels somewhat larger with amenities. We all go to Dallas metro for fun and life in Paris is about the same as someone who lives in a similar sized place like Nacagdoches, etc. 

[SmokedOut]

1 hour ago, NETexas81 said:

There are. I am technically not “new” here, but had to create a new account for some reason. Honestly, I am kinda blown away at some of the comments regarding Paris or respectively, PISD & NLISD. 

So, the boring technical stuff… Paris in general, is right at 25,000-26,000 (2024 est.), with the immediate surrounding neighborhoods at 4,000, there is no separation from the two, meaning you cross the street into the other. Paris is a town of really 30,000 people. There are three independent school districts within the city limits of Paris and kids within the city limits of Paris attend NL and Chisum, not just Paris. Paris is the largest high school and district, by a pretty wide margin and that margin has continued to grow over recent years as NL has lost a lot of enrollment. Prairiland is just a few miles outside of Paris. There are about 52,000 people in Lamar County and about 37,000 live within 5 miles of Paris. 

Lamar County also has one of the largest Per Capita Incomes in the North East Texas at $52,000 and a Median Household Income of almost $63,000 (2022 numbers). I wasn’t able to fully dive into those numbers, but that is higher than Bowie County, Gregg County and Titus County, but slightly lower than Smith and Hopkins Counties, for reference (txcip.org). Thought I would mention based on the comments that “nothing is there”?!?

Paris and NL regularly compete and excel in State tournaments (Paris more so but not worth an argument). There is an amazing amount of athletic talent in Paris. This may not always show in football, but overall, both schools are fully represented within their respective districts and to say that the “breeding pool” has been limited is quite the misleading statement. Especially when considering that outside of Tyler, Longview, and Texarkana, Paris is one of the largest areas in East Texas. I can speak more for Paris HS, but they have amazing facilities and excel overall in many areas of UIL, not just sports. 

With regards to the revolving door of coaches and open positions, you are dealing with isolated issues at each district. NL has seen a lot of issues within the school board and unhappy parents. They have had a loss of enrollment, NO investment in facilities (other than Fine Arts), etc. Paris on the other hand has had an increase and more investment in facilities. More payoff appearances. Their coaching “issues” are different ones. I think with NL, they truly are having an issue of agreeing on someone and someone wanting the job. With Paris, I think they get interest (maybe pay is not the best) but the program is pretty decent and end up getting someone from a much smaller program or someone that will not take the pay based on their experience elsewhere. Not really a statement on the school, students or staff. As someone already mentioned, when an AD leaves a school, there is usually a mass exodus that follows, leaving many positions open. 

With other comments on “Isn’t the only thing there, the Eiffel Tower”… I mean, all of East Texas is the same in this regard. They are all small to medium to large towns with a couple of places like Tyler that feels somewhat larger with amenities. We all go to Dallas metro for fun and life in Paris is about the same as someone who lives in a similar sized place like Nacagdoches, etc. 

Baby Dolls still out on 271? Always enjoyed the cellulite and c section scars. Was always a little weirded out it was by a big cemetery, but I manned up and went a few times anyway. 

[WillieDaWildcat]

Let me break it down for everyone on what type of coaches want to work in Paris.

Paris- If you are a serious coach who has aspirations of making playoff runs and advancing in the profession. The expectations are high but this is where the best of the best coach.

 

Chisum- If you want to be in an environment that is relaxed with no expectations. You know you’re going to suck, but you don’t really care. Coaching is a hobby to you.

 

North Lamar- No one coaches here. Look at the job boards, they have more job openings than a Waffle House in a bad neighborhood.

[WillieDaWildcat]

3 hours ago, SmokedOut said:

Baby Dolls still out on 271? Always enjoyed the cellulite and c section scars. Was always a little weirded out it was by a big cemetery, but I manned up and went a few times anyway. 

Baby Dolls is no longer open. They couldn’t stay open after North Lamar had to recruit all of the girls there to come teach at the school. I heard that Crazy House might shut down next. The AD at North Lamar has been there begging the associates to come on over and coach.

[LamarCounty]

16 minutes ago, WillieDaWildcat said:

Baby Dolls is no longer open. They couldn’t stay open after North Lamar had to recruit all of the girls there to come teach at the school. I heard that Crazy House might shut down next. The AD at North Lamar has been there begging the associates to come on over and coach.

Paris has just as many if not more openings than North Lamar

[SmokedOut]

12 hours ago, WillieDaWildcat said:

Baby Dolls is no longer open. They couldn’t stay open after North Lamar had to recruit all of the girls there to come teach at the school. I heard that Crazy House might shut down next. The AD at North Lamar has been there begging the associates to come on over and coach.

That should bring some boys out of the hall lol

[flanker]

13 hours ago, WillieDaWildcat said:

Let me break it down for everyone on what type of coaches want to work in Paris.

Paris- If you are a serious coach who has aspirations of making playoff runs and advancing in the profession. The expectations are high but this is where the best of the best coach.

 

Chisum- If you want to be in an environment that is relaxed with no expectations. You know you’re going to suck, but you don’t really care. Coaching is a hobby to you.

 

North Lamar- No one coaches here. Look at the job boards, they have more job openings than a Waffle House in a bad neighborhood.

Not quite the whole truth Willie.

Paris - Has the athletes but lose as many coaches as North Lamar year after year.  Why would a good coach want to stay and put up with the AD for more than one year?  

Chisum- Good coaches that most have ties to the school but their problem is they are basically a "white" school.

North Lamar - Just doesn't have the athletes to compete in boys sports but the girls seem to rule the area.

[TIMRIGGINS]

On 5/9/2024 at 7:54 PM, Destry said:

So they can go to that powerhouse down the road in Clarksville

obviously 

[The Shadow]

NOinvestment in facilities (other than Fine Arts),
 

If they are only investing in One Act Play, and band that could be why the school is dropping in enrollment. Believe it or not not all the kids want to be part of the weirdness that those things foster  

[The Shadow]

On 5/16/2024 at 10:48 AM, flanker said:

Not quite the whole truth Willie.

Paris - Has the athletes but lose as many coaches as North Lamar year after year.  Why would a good coach want to stay and put up with the AD for more than one year?  

Chisum- Good coaches that most have ties to the school but their problem is they are basically a "white" school.

North Lamar - Just doesn't have the athletes to compete in boys sports but the girls seem to rule the area.

Chisum is soft as warm butter. Great facilities. 
Paris has a dude that kills/ puts the screws to programs  that do not immediately benefit him

North Lamar has internal issues that most people can not fathom

Overall Paris/ Lamar county has a lot of entitled folks with agendas who think masculinity is toxic

[nationalpastime]

3 hours ago, The Shadow said:

 

Overall Paris/ Lamar county has a lot of entitled folks with agendas who think masculinity is toxic

You, sir, just described the state of many places across America currently.

[The Shadow]

5 hours ago, nationalpastime said:

You, sir, just described the state of many places across America currently.

Yes, and Lamar County is the queen b of it in these parts 

[Bulldognation1]

What happened with Bowman years back at Paris? Figured he was about to turn Paris into a power with the athletes they usually have. Didn't he only stay 1 year??

[supermaroon]

41 minutes ago, Bulldognation1 said:

What happened with Bowman years back at Paris? Figured he was about to turn Paris into a power with the athletes they usually have. Didn't he only stay 1 year??

He was there 2 years I believe but he has the same pattern to wearing out his stay at all the places he's been.

[flanker]

13 hours ago, The Shadow said:

Paris has a dude that kills/ puts the screws to programs  that do not immediately benefit him

It's amazing how many people have mentioned this to me when talking about area schools

[SmokedOut]

4 hours ago, Bulldognation1 said:

What happened with Bowman years back at Paris? Figured he was about to turn Paris into a power with the athletes they usually have. Didn't he only stay 1 year??

Dude is a legend. Got him a mother/daughter duo. He’s the Ricky Bobby of high school coaches. Shake and bake!

[SmokedOut]

3 hours ago, supermaroon said:

He was there 2 years I believe but he has the same pattern to wearing out his stay at all the places he's been.

Oh he was wearing things out alright. My man.