Are People Born Inherentely Bad? or Good?

[Rhino2K]

Originally posted by JPure

How do you explain a two year old lying when she has never seen someone else lie???????

 

 

Or, taking a toy from a friend's house????????

 

 

 

Or, screaming "No!!!!!!!!" when told to stop playing in her food?????????

 

That two year old wasn't born as a deceiver. Kids are not always truthfull because they are KIDS.

 

How can you sin (at the age of two) if you don't know the difference between "right" and "wrong" yet?

 

Mark 10:13-16

[JPure]

Originally posted by Colmesneilfan1

Originally posted by JPure

I read it, and stand by my post.

 

You gave only one scripture that actually pertains to the discussion, and that is Genesis 8:21-"....."Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from CHILDHOOD."

NIV

 

Again, we cannot see an infant sin because they cannot express it through language. My daughter and son have lied and disobeyed from the time that they could understand what I was telling them to do. They did not learn it from anyone because they had not seen it before.

 

Again, I ask you the question that YOU ignored.

If we are not born with sin, then why was it necessary for Jesus to be conceived through the Holy Spirit (God) and not Joseph (Man)??????????:suspicious:

 

Like I said: Casting pearls before swine. Straight is the gate and narrow is the way unto salvation, and FEW there be that find it, but WIDE is the gate and broad is the way unto DESTRUCTION, and MANY there be that will find it.

 

 

Yes Colmes, you have proven your higher spiritual enlightenedness by prophecying that you would call me a pig and then following through with it. Nice job of some "Christian" name calling. I really thought more of you than that.

[JPure]

Originally posted by Rhino2K4

Originally posted by JPure

How do you explain a two year old lying when she has never seen someone else lie???????

 

 

Or, taking a toy from a friend's house????????

 

 

 

Or, screaming "No!!!!!!!!" when told to stop playing in her food?????????

 

That two year old wasn't born as a deceiver. Kids are not always truthfull because they are KIDS.

 

How can you sin (at the age of two) if you don't know the difference between "right" and "wrong" yet?

 

Mark 10:13-16

 

 

Was there sin in the world before the ten commandments were given on Mount Sinai?

[RETIREDFAN1]

Originally posted by JPure

My daughter and son have lied and disobeyed from the time that they could understand what I was telling them to do. They did not learn it from anyone because they had not seen it before.

 

So you are saying that YOU never lied or committed ANY OTHER sin that they saw you commit and picked up from you???

[RETIREDFAN1]

Originally posted by JPure

 

 

Again, I ask you the question that YOU ignored.

If we are not born with sin, then why was it necessary for Jesus to be conceived through the Holy Spirit (God) and not Joseph (Man)

 

Because HE is GOD.

[JPure]

No, I have not lied in front of my kids and have never thrown a temper tantrum, yet (I am definitely not above doing those things).

 

For Jesus to be God's Son He had to be sinless. Therefore, He could not have had an earthly man as his father.

 

 

Maybe I am worse off than you guys, but it is very obvious to me that sin comes very natural to me. And, it is very difficult (unnatural) to resist it. It comes natural because we are born with it. It has been passed down from the first man, Adam.

Romans 5:12- "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-

Romans 5:19- "For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous."

 

Yes, Adam and the rest of creation were made perfect, but he was also given free will. He chose to sin and it has been passed down to us. We have inherited sin and death. If this is not true, then how can you come to grips with a God that would allow a completely "innocent, sinless" infant to die. That would make God unjust and guilty of murder (killing an innocent). God is not a murderer because we are all (since Adam) born with a sinful nature and are therefore guilty, not innocent or sinless. Again, when you claim that man is born inherently "good, sinless" then you are making God guilty of murder when an infant dies. Is that what you believe about your God?????????

[squirmee01]

Originally posted by Rhino2K4

Originally posted by JPure

How do you explain a two year old lying when she has never seen someone else lie???????

 

 

Or, taking a toy from a friend's house????????

 

 

 

Or, screaming "No!!!!!!!!" when told to stop playing in her food?????????

 

That two year old wasn't born as a deceiver. Kids are not always truthfull because they are KIDS.

 

How can you sin (at the age of two) if you don't know the difference between "right" and "wrong" yet?

 

Mark 10:13-16

 

Let me start by saying that I believe there is not a "certain" age of accountability, but there is a time in everyone's life that God holds them accountable.

 

Having said that: A two yr. old can sin because they are born with a sinful nature, but are not held accountable for that sin because they are not at an age where they understand what they are doing.

[Bilbo]

:shrug:

[cantcatchme]

We had this discussion in class this week. I say evil for many of the reasons people have already listed. My students think it's terrible that the guillotine executions were so well attended during the French Revolution, but then we talked about how gory slasher films are so popular, how there are illegal cockfights and dogfighting, how people watched the beheadings on the internet last year. People are no more civilized than they ever were. We just have better law enforcement to make us pretend we are.

[dstan7695]

I say I can look at two parents who share black eyes and black hair. Of course they are most likely going to have a black-haired baby with black eyes. You people can't tell me you don't look at someone and say to yourself...yep..that's white trash. We know that people are born with all kinds of genetic mutations and variations, some people are born with a brain that is wired like a calculator..so why can't someone be born with the wrong genitals? New science in brain studies suggest that brains as once thought are not limited to the cells they were born with, but they do regenerate is some portions of the brain. They have also believed for a long time that brain functions, although they are in different areas of the brain for different people, they believed they stayed the same their whole lives...this is not so now. They know that if a person gets a brain injury that the area of the brain that use to do a function that was destroyed can be learned by another area of the brain. The question is if 2 good hearted people of good genes can take a bad gened child and raise it to be a good person, or will the bad genes ultimately determine that this person will be a bad person. And then what exactly is a bad person...what is normal? One who doesn't sin? One who has never done anything in their life which they regret? One who has never done something considered socially unacceptable? How many of those are there? If it is true that all people are sinners and all sins are equal in God's eyes, then isn't speeding the same as molesting a child? Something to ponder.

[dstan7695]

And furthermore...you guys are exactly right on the 2-yr old not understanding what he is doing is wrong. It's only once society teaches him something is wrong does he know what is wrong. But what is wrong in our society is not wrong in another. It's wrong in America to eat Roaches, but in Thailand they carry large platters around selling them. So in effect we judge when God tells us not to. Society takes Gods laws into their own hands every day. God as we know him, His laws were made by men, so therefore God is man. Every religion has its roots in one place..the human heart.

[RETIREDFAN1]

WOW. Good post.

[Wildcat_20]

I believe we make our own choices in life if we want to be bad or good. I have seen kids come from the slums of society and become great succesful people, and I have seen kids come from the best most succesful families and become total losers for the rest of their lives.

[Texashurdler]

Originally posted by dstan7695

And furthermore...you guys are exactly right on the 2-yr old not understanding what he is doing is wrong. It's only once society teaches him something is wrong does he know what is wrong. But what is wrong in our society is not wrong in another. It's wrong in America to eat Roaches, but in Thailand they carry large platters around selling them. So in effect we judge when God tells us not to. Society takes Gods laws into their own hands every day. God as we know him, His laws were made by men, so therefore God is man. Every religion has its roots in one place..the human heart.

 

This is a powerful post