Playing a player up from 5-6 to 7-8's

[Phewop]

Tell me there is a Dixie youth rule against this.

 

This was my son's team that did this.

 

7-8 year old Dixie youth theam has 11 players (players 10 & 11 play 1 inning each and bat once each then sit on the bench)

 

Team brought in a player from 5-6 year old. (substitute player plays in game while player 10 & 11 sit on bench)????

 

And before you say it; my son was not one of the players sitting on the bench.

 

I was an assistant coach on this team and stated my objections to the head coach, only to be told that he talked to the parents of players 10 & 11 and they did'nt mind. Was told by the other assistant coaches that the player was being brought up to play so that he would get some exposure to 7 & 8's because they were recruiting him to play on a super 7 team they were putting together.

 

 

[BIG-DADDY]

Nope not against the rules he can play up!

[Phewop]

Nope not against the rules he can play up!

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I know that he can play up but can a team sit 2 members on their roster for this substitute to play in a game?

(Playing up player can substitute any position - same age substitute player can only play outfield)

 

What is there to stop a team from bringing hotshot players from other teams in and setting their less than stellar roster players on the bench? While these subs play?

 

It just seems unfair for a young boy to sit on a bench, while someone from another team plays his position.

[BIG-DADDY]

The only rule is that they bat at least once and play in the field as well. :coolball: i no thats not what you want to hear!

[Foreverfan]

If he was drawn in the draft at the start of the season and paid his money, then he is just as much a team member as anyone else on the team. He's just younger than the other players. If he wasn't in the initial draft and he's playing ahead of two players that have been on the team, as a parent I'd probably have a problem with it. A player should never come in after the season has started and play ahead of the regular players on that team, whether it's to get experience or not. Even if he's eligible to play in the 6-7's, if he starts off playing up, that has always been an acceptable practice in every league.

[Phewop]

The player that subbed was drafted on the 5 and 6 yr old "Cardinals" and played for the 5/6's all season long. He was brought in to play on the 7 and 8 yr old "Cardinals" for 3 games. (1 game we did not have enough players and no-one sat the bench) (same uniform-hard for the other team to know he was not on the roster).

 

The other 2 games that the sub played in, the coach sat 2 players from his roster and played the sub every inning and rotated another person from his roster to sit while his 2 original bench warmers got their 1 innings in.

 

My son is on another team this year and his old coach is still over the 7 and 8 yr old Cardinals. He has a kid who has a brother playing on the 5/6's and has already told the parents that the younger brother will sub if anyone is out. He has a web site for his team and has the 5/6 yr old player listed on his 7/8 yr old site. (Believe he is up to do the same thing this year with a sub).

[Foreverfan]

I haven't been down in that age group in quite awhile, but in the old days, that was not allowable at all. If some other team in your division hears about it, it's grounds for forfeit. If he's not on original roster for team and is not in that division, that is certainly against the rules. When you pick up players for playoffs, it has to be from a team in your division.

[uniballer]

No rule against it necessarily, but the coach should be ashamed of himself.

 

But for the record, there is a new Texas Teenage rule that does not allow a kid to move up more than 1 year.... A 6 year old can play 7-8, but a 5 year old cannot....

[BGR]

Instances like this drive parents crazy. If the team needed an extra player to make a full team for a game it is absolutely okay. If the extra player is brought in and members of the original roster are moved to the bench, that is not against the rules as long as each player gets his alloted playing time but it is wrong, in my opinion. The original team members that attend practice and work to improve their game should not be moved to the bench just because the extra player gives the team a better chance at winning. Too many coaches and parents lose sight that youth sports organizations are for teaching the love of the game and the fundamentals with winning as a secondary goal.

 

A suggestion for you would to be to approach your association's board of directors to have a rule added in their local league rules to disallow this. This would apply to local league play only but it would prevent it there at least.

[Polar_Bear]

Instances like this drive parents crazy. If the team needed an extra player to make a full team for a game it is absolutely okay. If the extra player is brought in and members of the original roster are moved to the bench, that is not against the rules as long as each player gets his alloted playing time but it is wrong, in my opinion. The original team members that attend practice and work to improve their game should not be moved to the bench just because the extra player gives the team a better chance at winning. Too many coaches and parents lose sight that youth sports organizations are for teaching the love of the game and the fundamentals with winning as a secondary goal.

 

A suggestion for you would to be to approach your association's board of directors to have a rule added in their local league rules to disallow this. This would apply to local league play only but it would prevent it there at least.

Agreed. If you have a Select Team, that is put together, by all means, put the best players that qualify out on the field that you can get a hold of. But in a Youth Rec (TTAB, LL, Dixie) league, you play the team you drafted if they are available. While attempting to win is a part of the game, Youth Rec leagues are about player development (and enjoyment), which does not happen on the bench.

 

I have parented, coached, assisted, what have you, and have to say I have a better perspective on this than I did when I first coached some 15 years ago. At that time, I probably sat my lessor skilled players more than I would today.

 

Oh yea though, I did have a player that the league let play up. Only in playing up he wasn't the superstar he apparently was at the younger age group (6-7 tball as opposedto 8 yo pitch). He wasn't BAD, but he apparently was used to starting all the time, and we had 13 players (boy that's something you don't want, 4 who don't start, and 4 who have to come out, and 8 parents ready to string you up). Well, this boy had his share of sitting, which did not "sit" well with his parents, and they pulled him from the team, so he in essence did not play. (SIDE NOTE: If you dislike a coach or what have you, stick out the season you paid for, then request to never go back, but don't waste your money. Does a kid not "sit" even more if he quits?)

 

Another thought on all this - the other night the remake of Bad News Bears was on, and it was right at the part where the coach finally realized what it was all about, and put the kid in the wheel chair in, and the kid who was 0 for his career, etc. You still try to win, but you give every kid a chance to help you - win or lose.

 

My kids played TTAB for a while, but now are in LL. One of the things that I disagreed with TTAB on, and I coached it a couple of times, is that the tendency in our league was that the league allowed the same players to go back to the same team annually, in fact encouraged, and expected that the core players would return to these teams (to build relationships I was told). What happened was that you had super teams (Select team in essence) that dominated the league for the most part. No knock on the coaches, fine people, but did not care for the rule that allowed their dynasties. If you were a new kid in the area, and did not land on one of these teams, it was pretty much already known which team was going to win the district level, and that rarely if ever varied from the script. Which is no fun to most of the other teams.

 

Ok, enough rambling on my part... :-)

 

[threejs]

My kids played TTAB for a while, but now are in LL. One of the things that I disagreed with TTAB on, and I coached it a couple of times, is that the tendency in our league was that the league allowed the same players to go back to the same team annually, in fact encouraged, and expected that the core players would return to these teams (to build relationships I was told). What happened was that you had super teams (Select team in essence) that dominated the league for the most part. No knock on the coaches, fine people, but did not care for the rule that allowed their dynasties. If you were a new kid in the area, and did not land on one of these teams, it was pretty much already known which team was going to win the district level, and that rarely if ever varied from the script. Which is no fun to most of the other teams.

 

Ok, enough rambling on my part... :-)

 

Keeping teams together is done to get your dynasties and to advance as far into the playoffs as possible. If you are a new kid and really good? Just tell the league you won't play for the other coaches and "presto", you skip the draft. After having gone thru that somewhat with my boys (and being on both ends of it) I am now going thru it with my daughter. She started playing as a 9 yr. old. The 2 other teams in the draft selected, if I'm not mistaken, ZERO and 2 players from the draft. Her team was comprised of "everybody else". Same thing happened this year as only 1 other player from her team last year is playing again. We are once again on the "leftover" team. Makes for a long season.

 

[Snowbird]

Keeping teams together is done to get your dynasties and to advance as far into the playoffs as possible. If you are a new kid and really good? Just tell the league you won't play for the other coaches and "presto", you skip the draft. After having gone thru that somewhat with my boys (and being on both ends of it) I am now going thru it with my daughter. She started playing as a 9 yr. old. The 2 other teams in the draft selected, if I'm not mistaken, ZERO and 2 players from the draft. Her team was comprised of "everybody else". Same thing happened this year as only 1 other player from her team last year is playing again. We are once again on the "leftover" team. Makes for a long season.

 

 

Yep and poetic justice is when those teams do that and still don't win it all. I am proud to say that, with the help of some great coaches(me,not included)and great kids we were able to take TWO newly drafted teams in Bullard to the State Championship game in a 3 year period. We drafted some kids others didn't want because it would require the coaches to work. The kids worked hard, did a few things very well and played above their heads come playoff time. Two great runs and it was the time of my life. We beat some teams we had no business beating but that was a credit to some very hard working kids. We lost both times in the Championship but we did it right. And the teams that have stayed together are still trying to win the big one. Still no dynasty.

[Tman]

I know exactly what you are talking about snowbird! I think a lot of the success your teams had was because you let the kids enjoy the game and have fun playing. Which is what it should be all about at this age. It even starts in t-ball!!! This year each coach could "protect" their own kid, an assistant coaches kid and one more for a total of 3 players. At the tryout, a board member came to one of the coaches and said this is the kid I was telling you about and he is not going to tryout so protect him. It turns out this kid is an excellent player of course. So, the attempt at stacking teams to go further in the playoffs still exists.

 

It is not right and those who do not do it right end up losing in the long run. You did it right and fortunately my kid was on one of those teams that got second in state. And it was an experience he will never forget.

[Snowbird]

Thanks Tman. I think I just realized who you are and it was a great time. Looking back, even though we had fun, I wish I would have been less intense. I have mellowed over the years and tried to keep the game fun for the kids while keeping expectations high. Your son was a big part of that first run and if only he was there for the second one we might have won it all. Keep me informed on how he does this season. I miss that kid. See you around the park.

[threejs]

Yep and poetic justice is when those teams do that and still don't win it all.

 

True. And poetic justice is also seeing all of those Dynasty Teams' coaches from days gone by having the opportunity to go WATCH all of the "also rans" play playoff games this time of the year, every year.

[BGR]

My opinion is the open draft is the only way to go. The closed draft or keeping the core teams together normally creates a huge talent gap between teams in the same local league. Ore City went to a closed draft a few years back and the politics were worse than ever. Paper coaches being elected so players could move with their dad/coach to the stacked teams, etc. Don't think this happened last year but the closed draft is still in place and there is always one team in most of the age divisions with the youngest players that gets beat unmercifully thru the entire season. Not good for the kids. The point of youth sports is teaching and developing not just winning by stacking teams.