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The_Peon

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If you were truely a high school umpire... and you truely cared about the integrity of baseball officiating, you would be a guy who would have handled it in a different way.

 

Exactly.....

 

His comments were nothing more than a cheap shot

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Peon,

 

I was not going to come on here and respond to this rediculous allegation you have made regarding umpires but the U2U's that I have received telling me about this thread and wanting to know what was going on has led me to respond:

 

First of all, you have forgotten the golden rule about sports officials bashing other sports officials. You obviously have liitle or no class to come on here and make the kinds of remarks and allegations that you made.

 

There are NO umpires coming to the parks with chips on their shoulders regarding the pay dispute with the UIL and TASO. You either agreed to the pay rate and umpired or you put your gear on the shelf and not umpire.

 

Your comments regarding the quality of umpires are without merit when you read all of the messages from the coaches thanking the Tyler Chapter for the quality of umpires they have been receiving. I do not have to say anymore and all of the coaches who are on this board know exactly what I am talking about.

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Longhorn Fan,

 

I wasn't trying to name any specific chapter. All of my posts were in regards to what I've seen this season where I've been at games. I WISH the Tyler Chapter called games that I'm at. Of course no one's comments on here speak for the state or individual chapter. And even if the "chip on the shoulder" isn't from the pay dispute, it doesn't mean that some don't show up without trying to "big dog" the game.

 

Sorry for any offense.

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Longhorn Fan,

 

I wasn't trying to name any specific chapter. All of my posts were in regards to what I've seen this season where I've been at games. I WISH the Tyler Chapter called games that I'm at. Of course no one's comments on here speak for the state or individual chapter. And even if the "chip on the shoulder" isn't from the pay dispute, it doesn't mean that some don't show up without trying to "big dog" the game.

 

Sorry for any offense.

 

"Big Dog" the game? Peon, you just totally wiped away any credit you may have had regarding this subject with that comment. At first, the assumption was the officials had a chip on their shoulder regarding the pay issue and that they may be mad at the coaches which was TOTALLY not true. NOW, you want to say that they show up and "Big Dog" the games .....whatever that means.

 

I am not going to say EVERY coach on here will agree with me that they are very pleased with the fact that they have had no real complaints regarding umpiring or officiating in general this season. I WILL say that better than 97% of the schools using the Tyler, SFA, Longview and Texerkana Chapters are very happy we are doing their games AND they will be the first to tell you that at no time did an official show up with a chip on their shoulder about any issue and that the officials have conducted themselves in a professional manner and there were no problems.

 

I will go out on a limb and say that 90% of the umpires are not happy with the UIL regarding the pay issue HOWEVER, everybody decided to work the games and make sure that the schools did not suffer. You come on here make the remarks that you do and complain but NOT ONE TIME did you have a solution to whatever the problem was that you addressed.

 

You are one of the reasons why people quit officiating. People like yourself attacking officials in an open forum. We are not MLB umpires. We are not NBA or NFL or NHL officials. We are mainly interscholastic and intercollegiate officials doing what we enjoy doing. All of us would thank you to correct your statements in open forum since you used an open forum to make them and not with U2U.

 

Longhorn Fan

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"Big Dog" the game? Peon, you just totally wiped away any credit you may have had regarding this subject with that comment. At first, the assumption was the officials had a chip on their shoulder regarding the pay issue and that they may be mad at the coaches which was TOTALLY not true. NOW, you want to say that they show up and "Big Dog" the games .....whatever that means.

 

I am not going to say EVERY coach on here will agree with me that they are very pleased with the fact that they have had no real complaints regarding umpiring or officiating in general this season. I WILL say that better than 97% of the schools using the Tyler, SFA, Longview and Texerkana Chapters are very happy we are doing their games AND they will be the first to tell you that at no time did an official show up with a chip on their shoulder about any issue and that the officials have conducted themselves in a professional manner and there were no problems.

 

I will go out on a limb and say that 90% of the umpires are not happy with the UIL regarding the pay issue HOWEVER, everybody decided to work the games and make sure that the schools did not suffer. You come on here make the remarks that you do and complain but NOT ONE TIME did you have a solution to whatever the problem was that you addressed.

 

You are one of the reasons why people quit officiating. People like yourself attacking officials in an open forum. We are not MLB umpires. We are not NBA or NFL or NHL officials. We are mainly interscholastic and intercollegiate officials doing what we enjoy doing. All of us would thank you to correct your statements in open forum since you used an open forum to make them and not with U2U.

 

Longhorn Fan

 

ok, let me be more specific. i haven't seen ANY officials from the chapters you've named. I'm not attacking, but if the shoe fits then wear it. and my guess NOW is that if you can't take comments like such on an open forum, then you might be an official that surely can't take it on the field either.

 

 

 

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ok, let me be more specific. i haven't seen ANY officials from the chapters you've named. I'm not attacking, but if the shoe fits then wear it. and my guess NOW is that if you can't take comments like such on an open forum, then you might be an official that surely can't take it on the field either.

 

Oh I can take anything from anybody. Does not really faze me one way or the other. It is the younger guys who read this stuff and decide that they can't deal with it and quit.....or hear somebody in the stands repeat out loud what they read from morons who type this stuff.

 

All of the coaches on here know me and most of the people who come to either basketball or baseball games know me as well and all I have to do is yield the thread to them and they will tell you not a whole upsets me either on the floor or on the field. The last time I threw a baseball coach out of a game was in 1992 at Western Ok. State College. I have given exactly 4 technical fouls to coaches in the last 9 years. I have never flagged a coach on the sideline in football. Anything else?

 

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Peon,

 

When you post a thread Umpires, how bad can THEY get, you make the statement to all umpires. I hope that you would understand many umpires in east texas take their officiating extremely seriously, and again when you point out all umpires in saying they, what kind of reaction do you expect? I am sorry an official in your neck of the woods showed up late, didnt know the infield fly rule etc.

 

I would advise you as a coach to call you local chapter president and have the discussion with him, so it can be discussed with the offficial, not coming on a public board making a broad statement of how bad umpires are getting. I know our chapter has a policy of showing up 30 - 45 minutes before each game. Again these are things that should be taken care of through the chapter you are using.

 

Time to head out to the parks.... and I do have both pairs of shoes shined and ready to go.

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Golden rule??? Come on. Never good to go against your old pals, but calling a spade a spade is far more respectable than calling a bad umpire a great one just to save the creed. Any umpire knows theres bad umpires as well as good ones. Just as every good umpire knows a good coach from a bad coach. If you turn on PBS and watch any footage from old yankee baseball games in the 1920's you will see fans razzing the umpires. Blaming the umpire is nothing new, many times it is from ignorant fans, and many times it is from ignorant coaches, but can any umpire honestly expect to not hear it from the fans or coaches. Its the game. Lets take hot dogs out of baseball. Or better yet, lets hire firemen that are afraid of fire. There are great umpires. They are greatly appriciated and probably not told when they do a good job. But golden rules??? Maybe good umpires need to weed out the bad ones by canning the golden rule and saying "hey, this is my profession, dont give it a bad name, beat it kid." And taking flack as an umpire is UNDENYABLE. Theres no crying in baseball.

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We had 2 umpires last night that I could have sworn got out of a Nursing Home Van. I think one of them came down the hill with a walker and the other one was using a cain. I know I had to take my parents keys away when they were driving on the wrong side of the road. Don't you think there comes a time when umpires should just hang it up and decide to watch it from the stands instead of behind the plate?

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We had 2 umpires last night that I could have sworn got out of a Nursing Home Van. I think one of them came down the hill with a walker and the other one was using a cain. I know I had to take my parents keys away when they were driving on the wrong side of the road. Don't you think there comes a time when umpires should just hang it up and decide to watch it from the stands instead of behind the plate?

 

The Tyler chapter has had two older umpires who I have respected for many years. I have not seen them at any games this season. I surely hope they have not retired from baseball just because they retired from their day jobs. They are or were a credit to the game.

 

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We had two good umpires last night at our 3A baseball game. We usually have some pretty good ones in 14 3A. The one behind the plate last night had on the real umpire jacket, and all the fans thought that was great. I can't imagine any umps wearing one during a Texas summer, but it would be nice if more of them wore them during the early part of the season. It kind of added something special. I think each team had a player thrown out, but the umps took care of business.

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We had 2 umpires last night that I could have sworn got out of a Nursing Home Van. I think one of them came down the hill with a walker and the other one was using a cain. I know I had to take my parents keys away when they were driving on the wrong side of the road. Don't you think there comes a time when umpires should just hang it up and decide to watch it from the stands instead of behind the plate?
Was this the Dfield/HS game? If so, the one behind the plate should do himself and the kids a favor and retire. He was very nice, joked with the kids, and never flinched at the lashing he took from the fans. He had a smile on his face the whole game. Nice guy. But he was blind as a bat. Both pitchers, catchers, batters, and fans could only laugh after a while. If this was not the game you speak of, i promise you they could not have been worse.

 

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Yes it is the game I'm talking about. It is so sad that a good game had to be dictated by 2 old guys that could not find their butt from a hole in the ground. They really should of been out on there front porch in a rocking chair watching cars drive by!

 

The final call in the bottom of the 7th inning when he called the Daingerfield kid out on first from getting picked off, while he (the umpire) was napping over on 1st base. I think he woke up looked at his watch and realized he was 2 hours past his bed time and said, "heck I need to head home." So he called the kid out. The next 2 hitters for Daingerffield were Terry and Gilstrap who had gone 6 for 8 on the night and were licking there lips at the Hughes Springs pitcher who had thrown a whole bunch of pitches, but never got to the plate due to the Daingerfield runner getting called out on 1st base.

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Golden rule??? Come on. Never good to go against your old pals, but calling a spade a spade is far more respectable than calling a bad umpire a great one just to save the creed. Any umpire knows theres bad umpires as well as good ones. Just as every good umpire knows a good coach from a bad coach. If you turn on PBS and watch any footage from old yankee baseball games in the 1920's you will see fans razzing the umpires. Blaming the umpire is nothing new, many times it is from ignorant fans, and many times it is from ignorant coaches, but can any umpire honestly expect to not hear it from the fans or coaches. Its the game. Lets take hot dogs out of baseball. Or better yet, lets hire firemen that are afraid of fire. There are great umpires. They are greatly appriciated and probably not told when they do a good job. But golden rules??? Maybe good umpires need to weed out the bad ones by canning the golden rule and saying "hey, this is my profession, dont give it a bad name, beat it kid." And taking flack as an umpire is UNDENYABLE. Theres no crying in baseball.

I agree. After all the banter about pay you would think, if the umpires are going to hold the UIL to a pay increase next season, you would put your best effort into qualifying your requests. There seems to be a lack of emotion from the umpires this year, late calls on b a l l s, strikes and fouls, inconsistent strike zones, and the umpires just seem unfriendly. The umpire that called the Hallsville/Pine Tree game was standing deep behind the catcher, Hallsville's catcher is 6'2"ish and there is noway he could see the plate! He acted like he wanted to be somewhere else...if you want more, give more........

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It is the younger guys who read this stuff and decide that they can't deal with it and quit.....or hear somebody in the stands repeat out loud what they read from morons who type this stuff.

 

or...

 

They simply decide it's not worth the hassle and find other things to do with their time. No new officials in the pipeline will mean none to call games when the vets retire. The same idiots whining about bad calls today will be bemoaning the lack of umpires tomorrow.

 

Keep bashing the new guys and the vets....when they're gone, you'll get exactly what you deserve.

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I did see a good one Friday night in the field. He was pretty sharp. He hustled to get in position to make calls, and he made even the tough calls with authority and confidence. But at the same time he never once gave the appearance of putting on a show. I did thank him and don't mind giving credit where its due.

 

I saw another one just a few days before tell me in between innings that he would "give my pitcher 2 baseballs off the outside corner.....but he couldn't go 2 and a half baseballs". I just wondered to myself how good this guy had to be to know the difference. It was obvious after 2 innings there was no way he was good enough to know the difference.

 

Another thing that bugs me is when guys try to tell a coach where his strike zone is. (I"ve seen that on a weekly basis almost). My opinion is that coaches and and player should adjust to the zone, but don't come tell us where it is. If you see a strike, call a strike. Example, had a guy say he'd give 6 inches off the outside black, but he wasn't going to give anything on the inside corner. Why even say that???? And why not call a strike if you see a strike? I know that "#### and strikes" are left of to an umpires judgement, but its like once they try to verbally say where the zone is, they're surely going to "miss" a few. Where as if they just call a strike when they see one, there's not anything a coach can say.

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I agree. After all the banter about pay you would think, if the umpires are going to hold the UIL to a pay increase next season, you would put your best effort into qualifying your requests. There seems to be a lack of emotion from the umpires this year, late calls on b a l l s, strikes and fouls, inconsistent strike zones, and the umpires just seem unfriendly. The umpire that called the Hallsville/Pine Tree game was standing deep behind the catcher, Hallsville's catcher is 6'2"ish and there is noway he could see the plate! He acted like he wanted to be somewhere else...if you want more, give more........

 

 

Late calls on b alls, strikes and fouls? So now we dont call in a timely manner. LOL! I am always slow on any call because i want to see the full play develop, process, and then make my call. Nothing looks worse calling someone out and the ball comes out and you change it to safe. Now if it is a bang bang call after I see, process and make the call, i do sell it but that is the extent of my speed.

 

I also didnt know that umpires were suppose to show emotion on a field. I dont want to bring any attention to myself, I feel the best games are the ones you dont even know the umpires are there, or remember a single call they made. There is enough emotion in the stands, I dont want to add to it.

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Late calls on b alls, strikes and fouls? So now we dont call in a timely manner. LOL! I am always slow on any call because i want to see the full play develop, process, and then make my call. Nothing looks worse calling someone out and the ball comes out and you change it to safe. Now if it is a bang bang call after I see, process and make the call, i do sell it but that is the extent of my speed.

 

I also didnt know that umpires were suppose to show emotion on a field. I dont want to bring any attention to myself, I feel the best games are the ones you dont even know the umpires are there, or remember a single call they made. There is enough emotion in the stands, I dont want to add to it.

 

dluump,

 

i agree, an umpire should make the call in his head and then verbalize the call. ball/strikes/outs/safes. as far as emotions, i think sometimes even the bangers can be made with confidence without a big call, but confidence and authority in the call is always good.

 

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I agree. After all the banter about pay you would think, if the umpires are going to hold the UIL to a pay increase next season, you would put your best effort into qualifying your requests. There seems to be a lack of emotion from the umpires this year, late calls on b a l l s, strikes and fouls, inconsistent strike zones, and the umpires just seem unfriendly. The umpire that called the Hallsville/Pine Tree game was standing deep behind the catcher, Hallsville's catcher is 6'2"ish and there is noway he could see the plate! He acted like he wanted to be somewhere else...if you want more, give more........

 

I've read this entire thread now a couple of times. Let me lay just a few facts on everyone!

 

1. I haven't cashed an umpire check this year under $95. Just as we all said back in January, the new plan costs the schools more than the $85 flat rate we were contracting for. From a money standpoint, I couldn't be happier! The UIL is run by bureaucrats who don't trust people to be fair and honest. Rather than listen to solutions that make sense, they shove broad serving policies down everyone's throats and end up hurting the ones they are hired to protect! Both good and bad umps are getting more--and since there is a shortage, they don't have to give a bit more!

 

2. I haven't been home before 9:30 pm on a baseball night. The extra money comes at a cost--I have to drive farther--see my family less--burn more fossil fuels. Good thing I'm not a tree hugger!

 

3. The stance everyone is talking about is a new thing that is coming into baseball--it's called the Gerry Davis stance. Gerry Davis is a MLB umpire veteran and he is teaching this in his pro-school...and it is filtering down to the lower levels. It isn't wrong, it is just different and something that everyone isn't used to. Give it a chance to work--it might be something new and innovative. I do realize that nothing will ever beat the view from a bucket in the dugout--we should teach that at umpire school!

 

 

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I've read this entire thread now a couple of times. Let me lay just a few facts on everyone!

 

1. I haven't cashed an umpire check this year under $95. Just as we all said back in January, the new plan costs the schools more than the $85 flat rate we were contracting for. From a money standpoint, I couldn't be happier! The UIL is run by bureaucrats who don't trust people to be fair and honest. Rather than listen to solutions that make sense, they shove broad serving policies down everyone's throats and end up hurting the ones they are hired to protect! Both good and bad umps are getting more--and since there is a shortage, they don't have to give a bit more!

 

2. I haven't been home before 9:30 pm on a baseball night. The extra money comes at a cost--I have to drive farther--see my family less--burn more fossil fuels. Good thing I'm not a tree hugger!

 

3. The stance everyone is talking about is a new thing that is coming into baseball--it's called the Gerry Davis stance. Gerry Davis is a MLB umpire veteran and he is teaching this in his pro-school...and it is filtering down to the lower levels. It isn't wrong, it is just different and something that everyone isn't used to. Give it a chance to work--it might be something new and innovative. I do realize that nothing will ever beat the view from a bucket in the dugout--we should teach that at umpire school!

 

 

I personally feel that the home plate umpire should call pitches from a bucket in front of the entrance to the home teams' dugout, and the field umpire should call all 3 bases from a lawn chair outside the fence, down the first base line side. Obviously, these vantage points provide the best view of all the action.

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During a district meeting about four five years ago, we had a training from an umpire that was teaching that mechanic. Personally, I do not use it because I feel to open to punishment from foul ####, lazy catchers etc. The instructors idea of it was you were able to see thing much better. I dont agree, but it is what the umpire is comfortable using. I tried it a little on some summer league to see what it was like but I didnt care for it.

 

I hope something is resolved with the UIL but from what I hear the UIL is making moves to form their own chapters to officiate games. I will probably not call if they take away the ability for TASO or whatever seperate ruling body cover officiating sports. If that happens it will be a monopoly and control for the UIL to do whatever they want. I have never had the UIL do anything for officials in protection, insurance etc. I have never even heard a nice word from them for what we do. Granted when was the last time a Tyler, Longview, or SFA umpire get invited to the state tournament. I think it has been a long time. I know of several umpires from both chapters that would do an excellent job in Austin. But do to the struggles between the UIL and the east texas chapters, I dont think it will happen any time soon.

 

I do like teaming vetran umpires with the newer officials to help teach and train during live games. I enjoy helping new guys and helping them learn to call the game. There is a lot of guys out there that know baseball and would probably be good officials, I just dont understand why that wont come and call when they are so short fused on the guys that are out there working.

 

I personally have no chip on my shoulder about calling this year. Would I put up with as much as before... probably not, but I have like many other umpires installed in my head that it is not the coaches that have cause the situation, but the UIL. And trust me, I have already heard from the stands, yall wanted more pay and you call like this? What am I to think?

I've umpired with Lance McMillon President of the SFA Chapter the past 2 years at the State Tournament and Jim O'Bannon from the Tyler Chapter called as well in recent years.

 

Michael Middleton

Secretary/Treasurer

TASO Baseball-Corsicana Chapter

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I've umpired with Lance McMillon President of the SFA Chapter the past 2 years at the State Tournament and Jim O'Bannon from the Tyler Chapter called as well in recent years.

 

Michael Middleton

Secretary/Treasurer

TASO Baseball-Corsicana Chapter

 

 

Thats great. I have had the pleasure of calling with guys from the tyler chapter in the playoffs and they do an excellent job.

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Well now isn't this interesting!!

 

I'm not even going to comment on Peon's statements at all.

 

Regarding the new stance: The umpire that taught that stance at the district clinic in McKinney is now umpiring in the Majors. I, like dluump tried the stance and didn't like it at all. Because I didn't like it or it looks different than people are used to doesn't make it wrong. To my knowledge, we have had numerous umpires in the Longview Chapter try this stance but very few are still using it.

 

I love my job as a baseball umpire and will probably continue to umpire for a very long time. I coached for many years before I started umpiring. I love the game, it's the greatest game in the world! I won't be umpiring high school baseball next year if it means I have to work for the UIL. That's a fact! I do love the game and will just have to officiate the Dixie and Select games as well as tournaments. I am hopeful that our TASO organization can withstand the tactics the UIL is throwing at us now.

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