Owensas

Applebutter weren't you the one accusing me of using scare tactics? And you compare Obama to Hitler? really?

Its kind of funny, Hitler is considered one of the great speakers in history. If he had not been able to speak that well, the holocaust might have never occured.

This man can give some of the best speeches ever.

Republicans go to jail because they can't cover up as well :thumbsup: Anyway guys, I'm pretty tired me and Mccain both have something in common, we don't have the attention span to read three pages of important stuff.

you replied when I was writing my post, very nice. anyway. Bluepirate, 100k for a garden, 200million for a bridge, its all the same.

Lol. I am attempting scare tactics? Where? The homeland security thing? That was a cute jab that i thought was funny.

Well done, I stand corrected. I take back my comments about the Iraqi war being a mistake. as for the videos bluepirate posted; whats so bad about the first one? seems a little idealist and probably won't happen, but actually being able to do most of that IS a good thing. and your second link. The military has been getting away with spending wayyyyy too much for a long time now, just about everybody has said that, even Mccain mentions that. If he actually finds that much stuff that he feels needs to be cut, so be it. Its kind of funny though the homeland security spending, who is really going to keep you safer :thumbsup:

Oh lord, please explain to me based on the reasons that Dubya gave us, any good reason for us to have gone into the war in Iraq.

And we can all say Iraq was a mistake looking back on it; however, since we are focused on how they are going to fix it now. Your boy wanted less regulations and more tax breaks for them? and since i think Palin is so hot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv6CRObROV0

Since the thread has taken a light hearted turn I must throw out something that i thought was pretty funny on another website. Vice-presidential candidates responses after the first debates: Biden: Palin:

about as dangerous as a less than intelligent cowboy with a strong military behind him. applebutter i like the website you posted. Q: You have said "we will be out of Iraq in 16 months at the most." No matter what the military commanders say?A: The commander in chief sets the mission. That's not the role of the generals. The president's approach lately has been to say, well, I'm just taking cues from General Petraeus. Well, the president sets the mission. The general and our troops carry out that mission. And unfortunately we have had a bad mission. Once I've given them a new mission, that we are going to proceed deliberatel in an orderly fashion out of Iraq, if they come to me and want to adjust tactics, then I will certainly take their recommendations into consideration. And I have to look at not just the situation in Iraq, but the fact that we continue to see al Qaeda getting stronger in Afghanistan and in Pakistan, we continue to see anti-American sentiment fanned all cross the Middle East, and we are overstretched in a way that we do not have a strategic reserve at this point. Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008 this pretty much explains it perfectly, he needs to just flat out say something, put a date on it. If it is obviously not working and is not in the best interest of the united states, he will adjust it. I don't think you can ask for much more from a commander in chief?

Bleeds, I think its nice that you try to say that all Obama did was yell he was lying, when in several instances(when the moderator gave him permission to, yanno, cause you're supposed to listen to the moderator in a debate) he not only informed the people that Mccain was lying, but would also explain to the american public how and why mccain was lying. Yes there were times when He would simply say "He's lying" but thats because the moderator was making it obvious that he was ready to go on to the next question. Yet again, labeling Ahmadinejad a terrorist is dangerous. Also, I would love for you to give me sources that say anybody believed Obama was going to wipe the floor with Mccain. Everybody I have ever read, talked to, or listened to has said that this was Mccains domain. You seriously believe that Mccain wasn't preparing for this debate? funny.

1) Yet again, it wasn't a smear at Mccain at all, it was a smear at anybody who has ever brought up his middle name as a smear. Anybody who took it as a serious attack at John Mccain needs to be examined. 2) It wasn't a matter of fact that his middle name is Hussein, its a fact that republicans are using it as an attempt to draw connections to Saddam. 3) The timetable was originally meant to coincide with Iraq gaining their own military power and ability to defend itself. They were supposed to get so many troops and we were supposed to remove so many when this checkpoint was reached, or am i remembering wrong? 4) I was asking why you feel the need to refer to him specifically as Hussein in other topics. It obviously has some relevance to your opinion on him and i would LOVE to understand your feelings about it more. 5) You have every right to not explain it, which is why I beg, and if I remember right I was asking everybody who has done it to explain the relevance, so feel free not to explain, you are well within your rights not to, i'm sure somebody will, and i'm certain it will be a wonderfully intellectual reason.

wow. ... wow. Counter every punch Obama threw? Half the time he sat there with that smug grin on his face because he knew what Obama was saying was true. He was waving his hands like a little school boy to get the moderators attention and inform the public when Mccain was lying, it was rather cute how many times Mccain tried to play voting record without actually putting it in context.(not saying democrats are clean of this tactic, but its rather retarded) I must also say that I would prefer somebody go about trying to get attention in that way rather than flat out ignoring the moderator and continuing to talk. How did he call him a liar? On the kissinger bit? Maybe a little bit. Kissinger agrees with meeting without preconditions for lower level appointees, where as Obama is okay with even the president doing it. Better than Palin flat out calling Kissinger naive. As far as winning, yet again I ask how you are going to declare that? The hardcore right says that Mccain won, with a few people giving the nod to Obama, and its the same on the other side of the aisle. So it comes down to how many undecided people have become decided, but I have no sources to confirm anything about that, so if anybody does find one short of cnn or fox I would love to see it. but Jam did bring up a very good point about this was Mccain's debate to lose, it was his strong point, so for Obama to stay in it enough for some people to declare it a tie is pretty wow worthy.

It will never be undefended, the time table is going to be coinciding with other goals that will be met, most of which are going to goals involving Iraq being ready to defend itself, thank you please try again. yes, I brought it up to discuss why it is relevant, so you can't be like "oh, ha, you brought it up so i don't have to explain anything to you" ... that makes no sense?

Haha a little off topic, but in the next few weeks the wheels will have been long off, you already see republicans saying Palin was a joke of a candidate and that Mccain's stunt to suspend his campaign was retarded. If his campaign continues like it is, it will take a miracle for him to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

wait, what? A time table is going to have the enemy ready for our next assault? as for the talk of Obama's middle name, i may of brought it up for discussion in this topic, but I was making reference to how it was thrown around constantly in other topics so i must beg of you, explain to me any relevance his middle name has on ANYTHING.

Obviously the flag pin statement was meant to be a general jab at the media, because they did say it made a man patriotic. and yes, terrorism is a very important issue, and I think Obama said some very important things about terrorism. He mentioned that the war in terror needs to be focused on Afghanistan, anybody who disagrees with this just doesn't understand what is going on. Let me begin by saying Iraq was a mistake. Now that we are there however, we can not just pull out. Obama knows this, he mentioned it at the debates. We do need to get our soldiers out of there as soon as possible, but you are not going to just say, "Hey guys, this is lame, lets go home." He talks about a time table which is very important. Mccain talks about the surge working. Yes, violence is down, but is this really working? If you throw enough people at a problem it will obviously get better, but when the troops start being removed(we cannot keep up this surge), is violence going to start going back up? If so, then we accomplished nothing with the surge. The best thing we can do right now is strong arm the Iraqis into spending that surplus of theirs on increasing their own defensive capabilities, and slowly transition them into defending themselves. As we are transitioning those troops need to start being sent to Afghanistan where the real war in terror is being fought. Whether or not we should actually go into Pakistan to hunt terrorist is another debate, personally I disagree with Obama on this, but he makes his stance very appealing to a lot of people. Another important front is going to be Iran. How we handle them is gravely important, and quite frankly I don't want a man that was singing "bomb bomb Iran"(and then telling reports to get a life when critized about it) leading our country during such an important time. and please, reemphasize that Obama's middle name is Hussein one more time for me, I didn't get it the first million times you guys here have mentioned it. Oh my, his middle name is the last name of a cruel dictator. There goes anybodies chances of becoming president with the name Joseph, because he obviously shares Stalin's viewpoints, and will make America a communist nation.

Well since i wrote a valid post and instead get told i'm just trolling, i'll give you a legit trolling. Where was John Mccain's flag pin? Terrorist much? more like John Saddam Mccain, am i right?

In what way did Mccain actually win this debate? Did he get you guys the swing voters the party needs? as far as i can remember all of the polls following the debates said undecided voters viewed Obama as winning the debate. Did he just debate better than Obama? The way this debate was set up was to try to get the two candidates to talk to each other about the issues and actually debate, this was shown through the moderator several times asking the two candidates to speak directly to each other over what they disagreed with. Mccain was never willing to do this at all, did he even look at Obama once the whole night? Where did Mccain deliver a KO blow to Obama during the whole thing? Everything he tried to call Obama out on he was not only told he was wrong, but Obama clearly explained everything that was wrong with what he said. People also fail to realize Foreign Policy is where Mccain was supposed to shine, this is a Republican strong point, but he didn't deliver a home run. As for the VP debates coming up, you guys actually believe she is going to look strong on stage? In this format? The woman has given what a few speeches and a couple of interviews the entire time she has been selected. In those interviews, both of which more than likely she knew what was going to be discussed, she comes off looking ill-prepared and in way over her head. I will give her the fact that she is a good speaker when given the chance to practice and get her lines down, and she appeals to small town America, but she cannot compete in a true debate with a man like Biden. P.S Who likes the fact that Mccain attacked Obama for being willing to go into Pakistan and attack without their permission when Palin said she would be willing to as well? Nice.