UIL's broken System

[netexas92]

Assuming Carthage wins on Saturday. Splitting after the district is over is a waste of time.

[RETIREDFAN1]

Nobody's perfect.....That's why they are beginning to make the corrections....Six-Man, 1A, and 2A will be divided up into D1/D2 before the seaon now....I see it happening in the upper classes if it works as smoothly in 1A and 2A as it has in Six-Man.....

[yeahyeahyeah]

why does this matter?

[sackem]

Send two schools in the big school division and only one school in the small school division.

 

Sometime I think I am beating a dead horse.

[ShoelessJoe]

Send two schools in the big school division and only one school in the small school division.

 

Sometime I think I am beating a dead horse.

 

Look at district 10 AA. Pilot Point won the Div. 1 State Championship. 15 - 0. Aubrey finished 2nd in district then lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs. Callisburg, the 3rd place team in district went all the way to the State - Semi's in Div. 2. In your version, Callisburg would have been left out of the playoffs.

 

[oldbop3]

Look at district 10 AA. Pilot Point won the Div. 1 State Championship. 15 - 0. Aubrey finished 2nd in district then lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs. Callisburg, the 3rd place team in district went all the way to the State - Semi's in Div. 2. In your version, Callisburg would have been left out of the playoffs.

 

Take a look at the enrollment spread in each class. 30 years ago the spread in 3-a( second largest at time) was 669. 4-a now has a spread of 1104. Small enrollment schools can not compete in football. Sulphur Springs has a decent program. Check their scores vs. Longview ,Texas High, Marshall and then check their enrollment against the same. Look at the finalists in all classes. You will not find a school in the finals- division 1 or 2 - that has an enrollment in the bottom 35% of their class and you will find that only in 5-a. The reason many school districts are building new high schools and trying to maintain large 4-a numbers is clear. It is much easier to compete as a very large 4-a than a small 5-a. The disparity in enrollment is even worse near the metro areas where some districts have 5 or 6 teams with 1950 and above and a 2-3 teams just above 1000.

I do not have a perfect solution to this problem but I would hate to see the UIL decrease the number of playoff teams without changing the enrollment spread that now exists.

[JBizzle]

Assuming Carthage wins on Saturday. Splitting after the district is over is a waste of time.

 

 

Not too long ago, they didn't split the divisions at all...

 

You can keep complaining, but they have shown that they are trying to get it right.

 

Maybe we should disband the UIL and allow you to make all the Texas High School sports decisions.

[biteline]

Take a look at the enrollment spread in each class. 30 years ago the spread in 3-a( second largest at time) was 669. 4-a now has a spread of 1104. Small enrollment schools can not compete in football. Sulphur Springs has a decent program. Check their scores vs. Longview ,Texas High, Marshall and then check their enrollment against the same. Look at the finalists in all classes. You will not find a school in the finals- division 1 or 2 - that has an enrollment in the bottom 35% of their class and you will find that only in 5-a. The reason many school districts are building new high schools and trying to maintain large 4-a numbers is clear. It is much easier to compete as a very large 4-a than a small 5-a. The disparity in enrollment is even worse near the metro areas where some districts have 5 or 6 teams with 1950 and above and a 2-3 teams just above 1000.

I do not have a perfect solution to this problem but I would hate to see the UIL decrease the number of playoff teams without changing the enrollment spread that now exists.

 

This statement in bold is not very accurate. There are many small schools that are very good in their respective division. 2A is one I’m most familiar with. Garrison won it all in 02 and played for it all in 99 and 81 with almost the smallest 2A numbers.. around 205. Alto was a top 5 ranked team during the 90’s and played for one state championship with small 2A numbers now they are 1A. Groveton (one of the most prolific FB programs in TX football history won 3 state titles played for 1 or 2 more in the 80’s & 90’s with very small 2A numbers. They are now 1A.

 

 

 

I’m sure there are more examples….

 

 

[brady]

Assuming Carthage wins on Saturday. Splitting after the district is over is a waste of time.

 

 

I think the point netexas92 is making is that he's advocating splitting districts before the season and some of this mumbo jumbo about competing in 4A and 5A is irrelevant to the topic.

 

It definitely makes more sense to me to do it that way. I guess my question is at what point do we stop the madness and just have 12 classifications for all sports instead of 5 and six man D1 and D2? It's a slippery slope of fairness if you ask me.

[oldbop3]

This statement in bold is not very accurate. There are many small schools that are very good in their respective division. 2A is one I’m most familiar with. Garrison won it all in 02 and played for it all in 99 and 81 with almost the smallest 2A numbers.. around 205. Alto was a top 5 ranked team during the 90’s and played for one state championship with small 2A numbers now they are 1A. Groveton (one of the most prolific FB programs in TX football history won 3 state titles played for 1 or 2 more in the 80’s & 90’s with very small 2A numbers. They are now 1A.

 

 

 

I’m sure there are more examples….

Check the numbers for the finals this year. I know that there will be exceptions- Sulphur Springs last year- but most of the time the finalists will have large enrollment. If size did not matter JT would stay in 5-a. Pilot Point was used as an example ion an earlier post. They are in the very top of their class. Also check the number spread in the 80's and early 90's. It is surprising how much things have changed.

[yeahyeahyeah]

Take a look at the enrollment spread in each class. 30 years ago the spread in 3-a( second largest at time) was 669. 4-a now has a spread of 1104. Small enrollment schools can not compete in football. Sulphur Springs has a decent program. Check their scores vs. Longview ,Texas High, Marshall and then check their enrollment against the same. Look at the finalists in all classes. You will not find a school in the finals- division 1 or 2 - that has an enrollment in the bottom 35% of their class and you will find that only in 5-a. The reason many school districts are building new high schools and trying to maintain large 4-a numbers is clear. It is much easier to compete as a very large 4-a than a small 5-a. The disparity in enrollment is even worse near the metro areas where some districts have 5 or 6 teams with 1950 and above and a 2-3 teams just above 1000.

I do not have a perfect solution to this problem but I would hate to see the UIL decrease the number of playoff teams without changing the enrollment spread that now exists.

 

Ok like I said before enrollment DOES NOT matter!!! The Enrollment is how many boys and girls are in high school. Yall poeple don't know that I guess. They can compete.

[yeahyeahyeah]

yall people are wasting yalls time talking about this thing that don't even matter.

[PantherPower]

Ok like I said before enrollment DOES NOT matter!!! The Enrollment is how many boys and girls are in high school. Yall poeple don't know that I guess. They can compete.

 

If enrollment doesn't matter, why is it divided into classes at all? Just divide everyone into districts by location and have at it.

 

yall people are wasting yalls time talking about this thing that don't even matter.

 

Maybe you're wasting your time responding to it?? Just a thought.

[jd63238]

A few years down the road two schools will only remember their championship from 2009, and no one then will be remebering what dvision they were in and what enrollments were. They will just be cherishing their trophy! I like the fact that UIL gives more schools a chance regardless of enrollments. They try to implement the best format that they can, and school sups have input. True, I play the "who was the best" between the two champion teams, but I doubt the schools, players, and fans care about anything other than they have a championship to cherish for a lifetime.

[yeahyeahyeah]

If enrollment doesn't matter, why is it divided into classes at all? Just divide everyone into districts by location and have at it.

 

 

 

Maybe you're wasting your time responding to it?? Just a thought.

 

 

Are yall saying that a school with 171 always wins against a school with 170? just because and only because they have one more girl or boy enrolled then the other?

[oldbop3]

Are yall saying that a school with 171 always wins against a school with 170? just because and only because they have one more girl or boy enrolled then the other?

If it was as simple as 170 & 171 we would not have a problem. When you have 4-5 teams that are 2 times as large as the smaller teams that size becomes a problem. Ask Sulphur Springs if they would rather have Lindale or John Tyler added to 13 4-a or would they rather be moved into 15 4-a with several schools of 1200 to 1600.

[krpind]

A few years down the road two schools will only remember their championship from 2009, and no one then will be remebering what dvision they were in and what enrollments were. They will just be cherishing their trophy! I like the fact that UIL gives more schools a chance regardless of enrollments. They try to implement the best format that they can, and school sups have input. True, I play the "who was the best" between the two champion teams, but I doubt the schools, players, and fans care about anything other than they have a championship to cherish for a lifetime.

 

While I agree, I have a problem when schools like Gilmer and Pittsburg both have a realistic shot at a AAA state championship being 20 miles apart and never playing each other. Kinda like Carthage being 60 miles away and not playing Gilmer. When you have 2 state champions, from a very close geographic region, it really highlights the problems that are inherent in a system that allows for 2 champions from the same classification.

 

If the classifications are so wide as to give a huge advantage to larger schools, then we need more classifications.

 

JMHO

[sackem]

Look at district 10 AA. Pilot Point won the Div. 1 State Championship. 15 - 0. Aubrey finished 2nd in district then lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs. Callisburg, the 3rd place team in district went all the way to the State - Semi's in Div. 2. In your version, Callisburg would have been left out of the playoffs.

 

I wll try and type a little slower this time. You missed a lot some where. First off the thread was about 3A. But it will work with 2A too but the UIL may have devised a better solution for the next 2 years FOR 2A which might also help 3A if they go up on the 2A numbers.

 

In 10 2A Pilot Point 428.5 and Aubrey 422 would have gone D1.

Callisburg 349 would have still gone D2. So where ARE YOU LEAVING CALLISBURG OUT.

 

The only difference was Bushland would have gone D1 with 10 less students than Callisburg and Callisburg might have made it one game further not having to play Bushland.

[yeahyeahyeah]

If it was as simple as 170 & 171 we would not have a problem. When you have 4-5 teams that are 2 times as large as the smaller teams that size becomes a problem. Ask Sulphur Springs if they would rather have Lindale or John Tyler added to 13 4-a or would they rather be moved into 15 4-a with several schools of 1200 to 1600.

 

I don't belive in your myth. Any team can win. Your saying that winning and losing has everything to do about enrollent boys and girls and nothing to do with the players skill and talents and defense and offence and scoring more points than the other team? I don't belive that having alot of boys and girls in high school has anything to do with it.

[sackem]

. You will not find a school in the finals- division 1 or 2 - that has an enrollment in the bottom 35% of their class and you will find that only in 5-a.

 

Tatum won the Class 3A D2 in 2005 and only one school had a smaller enrollment in the state.

[JBizzle]

Assuming Carthage wins on Saturday. Splitting after the district is over is a waste of time.

 

 

I guess my other issue is, you say DII winner has more students than DI winner...so doesn't that mean that Gilmer beat several schools that have a higher enrollment than them...some by almost 300 students?

 

I understand your point, but as I said earlier the UIL is working to make things better.

 

Tatum has one of the lowest enrollment #'s in 3A and they seem to compete pretty well...champs in 05.

 

Celina won 3a state title 2 years after being 2A divII champs...

 

It can be done...let's not make it out to be the impossibility you are trying to make it.

 

How fair can you make it....don't separate any teams by more than 100 students?

[yeahyeahyeah]

Take a look at the enrollment spread in each class. 30 years ago the spread in 3-a( second largest at time) was 669. 4-a now has a spread of 1104. Small enrollment schools can not compete in football. Sulphur Springs has a decent program. Check their scores vs. Longview ,Texas High, Marshall and then check their enrollment against the same. Look at the finalists in all classes. You will not find a school in the finals- division 1 or 2 - that has an enrollment in the bottom 35% of their class and you will find that only in 5-a. The reason many school districts are building new high schools and trying to maintain large 4-a numbers is clear. It is much easier to compete as a very large 4-a than a small 5-a. The disparity in enrollment is even worse near the metro areas where some districts have 5 or 6 teams with 1950 and above and a 2-3 teams just above 1000.

I do not have a perfect solution to this problem but I would hate to see the UIL decrease the number of playoff teams without changing the enrollment spread that now exists.

 

Then how do explain that Tatum won state in 2005 and they had a small 3A enrollment and I am sure Gilmer played a school with more boys and girls in the high school. Gilmer won state this year. The reason that there are 2 divisions is so that there can be 2 state champions from each classifcation.

[TheBoot]

Then how do explain that Tatum won state in 2005 and they had a small 3A enrollment and I am sure Gilmer played a school with more boys and girls in the high school. Gilmer won state this year. The reason that there are 2 divisions is so that there can be 2 state champions from each classifcation.

 

That is the real reason. So there can be two state champions. I've never heard a real explanation why they do this in ONLY football. But if you're going to water down a state championship at least do it fairly and split the classifications before the season.

[yeahyeahyeah]

That is the real reason. So there can be two state champions. I've never heard a real explanation why they do this in ONLY football. But if you're going to water down a state championship at least do it fairly and split the classifications before the season.

 

 

Well they do that in Basketball too. Only in 1A though.

[yeahyeahyeah]

poeple should not worry about enrollments and just worry about your team getting to that goal. That State Championship.