How to find Jesus

[Easton]

we are talking about different ones then. The Dry Bean I know is in Bremond.

[elk10]

I think that is what it is called. He was a wee bit intoxicatred and forgot where he was and walked right off of the sidewalk. You can walk of the sidewalk onto the hood of a car, it is that high. I wasn't there but was told it was funny.

[Lhornfan]

Originally posted by HighRollin8s

The more I think about this the more it bugs me. To say a Catholic and a Christian are the same thing is wrong. The closest thing a Catholic can get to being a Christian is a Lutheran.

Remember way back when Martin Luther broke off from the Catholic church?

Back before there was even a Christian church, there was the Roman Catholic church. Remember the one's that crucified Jesus? The Roman Catholics referred to Christ's followers as "Christians" and that is where the name came from.

To be a Catholic and a Christian are two different things. I'm not saying one is wrong or one is right but they are separate.

 

You are wrong in so many ways. You obviously have no idea what the Catholic Church is about, you only know what some man is telling you.

 

First and foremost, the Catholic Church is a Christian Church. The church started with the Apostle Peter, so how could the "Catholics" crucify Jesus when there was no Catholic Church before the death of Jesus? Jesus was crucified by man, specifically it was the Jewish people that chose to put Jesus on the cross.

 

Second, and I can't for the life of me understand why you guys on here will not listen when I've said this so many times. Catholics DO NOT worship Mary. That would be blasphemy. Ever heard of though shalt not have no other god before me? Catholics believe in the Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So much so, Catholics are not afraid to make the sign of the cross across there whole body when praying to the Trinity. Do we pray to Mary? Do we pray to saints? Not the way you think we do. We ask Mary and other saints to pray for us to the Lord as we pray for others and ourselves as well. This is no different than someone starting a thread on Smoaky to pray for someone that might have been in an accident. Not only would I pray to the Lord for that person, I would also ask Mary to pray for that person as well.

 

Last, we also have Bible study on Wednesday evenings from 6:45 - 8:00. In all the years I've attended Mass at a Catholic Church, the only derogatory thing I've heard toward another religion is that the Catholic Church is the only church that has Mass. NEVER have I heard a priest or bishop say anything negative toward another religion. However on here, it is evident that some of you guys are being told how bad Catholics are; because if you actually attended a Mass, you would see how wrong you are.

 

Bottomline - have a clue about what you are talking about before you start hitting the keys. The only thing you have done with the above post is show your ignorance (I didn't say you are stupid) toward the subject.

[Lhornfan]

Originally posted by JPure

Alright, here we go...........

 

How did the Jews miss their Messiah?

 

legalism- they added laws, traditions, and rituals but lost their love for God. So much so that they couldn't even recognize their Messiah (God) when they met Him face to face, heard Him teach, and witnessed His miracles.

 

How has Catholicism missed Jesus?

 

legalism- they have added laws (works), traditions, and rituals but have lost their love for God and their reliance on His grace alone. So much so that most will miss His second coming (rapture).

 

Isn't it ironic that you know all this, yet you don't attend a Catholic Church and have no idea about the Catholic Church. Be careful with all the "religous" websites out there. We've spoke about this before, and the things you say would not be said by a true Christian. Did Jesus tell Mary Magdalene you are a #### and deserved to be stoned and burned in hell? No, but you are doing this by posting that my faith is lost and most Catholics will end up in hell. Remember the saying, "What Would Jesus Do?" I don't think he would do what you are doing.

[Lhornfan]

Originally posted by JPure

I am not telling you to stop anything. However, are you seeking truth in God's Word? If you are, then He will show what you need to do or stop doing. I was at A&M and greatly enjoyed margaritas and an occasional trip to the Dry Bean (Saloon/shot bar) with one of my Christian friends who also believed like me that alcohol in moderation was not a sin (even though neither us would dare tell our "Southern Baptist" parents that). Then, our Sunday school teacher suggested that we start a Wednesday night Bible study for the guys in our class, only he wouldn't teach it. Nobody volunteered after several weeks and I finally decided to do it. I was scared to death. It was after leading that study for about a month that I came across a scripture that said (paraphrase- Nothing you eat or drink is a sin, BUT if it causes another brother to fall (sin) then you should not do it). The Holy Spirit convicted me after reading that scripture that I should not drink anymore because even though it may not be a problem for me, I could influence someone else that it may be a huge problem for. I have not had another drink since then. I gave up chewing tobacco a few months later (that one was harder for me). However, the biggest struggle I have ever had was giving up internet pornography. Ya, I said it, and I wish that I was the only one that ever had to deal with it. It almost cost me my marriage and my family. I wouldn't be on here today able to tell anybody this if it hadn't been for that Sunday school teacher challenging one of us to start a Wednesday night Bible study. It caused me to get into God's Word and find truth, knowledge, and wisdom. It was not an easy process, but God guided me and gave me the strength to do things that I couldn't have done on my own. It's funny because it sounds like I gave up all of this "fun" stuff, but I have more true joy and peace now than I ever had when I was indulging myself in those "fun" things. It's not an easy path, but it was well worth the "supposed" price that I had to pay.

If you are truly seeking God, then you must get into His Word, and find a church that will provide you with Christian brothers to encourage you and that you can encourage. You will be rewarded for it. Here in this life, then in the next which lasts far longer.:thumbsup:

 

I am very happy for you, but I would like to point something out that really jumped out at me when I read this post.

 

"I wouldn't be on here today able to tell anybody this if it hadn't been for that Sunday school teacher challenging one of us to start a Wednesday night Bible study."

 

Just suppose you actually spoke with that Sunday school teacher about once every 3 months or so about your shortcomings. We all sin. Could he have helped you earlier?

 

This is very similar to confession, which most Catholics do about once a year. And although on TV, you see someone speaking through a small screen or opening, most of the time you are face to face with the priest. He is not there to embarass you, he is there to help you. Wouldn't most churches be better off if the parishoners spoke with their pastor one on one about their problems at least once a year? You guys make it sound like a cult.

[JPure]

Lhornfan-

 

WWJD- So, when Jesus encountered the pharisees and saducees, he was all lovey, dovey, peace, and love???????

 

Confessional- Sounds a lot like professional counseling, which is not necessarily a bad thing. However, confessing sins to a mere man and him telling you that you are forgiven if you do so many of this or that is not of God. We confess to God and God alone. He alone can proclaim forgiveness and there are not any "works" that must be done to get it. There is only one Holy Father, He is in Heaven, and His name is not JPII or any other pope.

[Easton]

Do me a favor JPure go to confession just once and be sincere doing it and you will see what Catholics see. Until that happens you have no idea what you are talking about. Confession was always a very emotional experience for me, I did my best soul searching and that is when I was when I felt God was with me the most. Yes, you are getting counciling from a priest, just like you would go to your preacher when you are needing help. Your are forgiven of your sins because you repent for them, you have to be truly sorry for them. Lhornfan said you have not even been to a Catholic church, is this true? I said something yesterday about throwing rocks at glass houses maybe you need to go back and read it again.

 

Who he is is the holy father because he is the pope and all priests are called fathers, he is the head of the Catholic church he is the Holy Father. You will never hear the pope called the second coming of Jesus, nonCatholics say that. Also Pope John Paul II passed away, we have a new pope now. Didn't know if you heard yet. Yes, all priests are called fathers. I took this from a web site at cin.org, a person asked why priests are called father. A priest answered her question, I hope it helps.

 

You ask why we Catholics call our priests by the title "Father", in view of the fact that Our Lord in Matthew 23:9 says: "Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."

 

Our Catholic Faith teaches us that God alone is infinite in all perfection. The whole created universe in all its perfections is less than a speck of dust in comparison with God. He has willed to be our Father, adopting us in Christ Jesus, His only begotten son. His fatherhood, like everything else about Him, is infinitely perfect, beyond all fatherhood to be found in His creation.

 

And yet in His mercy, God has made us human beings in His own image (Genesis 1:26-27). He is the "original" of any power or goodness we may have. We are only a faint copy of the divine Original. Human fatherhood itself is derived from God's own fatherhood, and is itself in the image and likeness of God.

 

Now the question arises: does Matthew 23:9 contain an absolute prohibition? Or does the Bible itself call human beings fathers? If it does, then we are right to conclude that God alone is fully our Father, but that human Fathers are true fathers indeed, but only as images and likenesses of God.

 

The Bible does call human beings fathers--and so, Matthew 23:9 is not an absolute prohibition. Furthermore, the Bible calls priests and prophets fathers. In Judges 17:10, the Ephraimite Micah asks a transient Levite, "Stay with me; be father and priest to me." Later (Judges 18:19), a Danite war party persuades the same Levite to leave Micah, saying: "Come with us and be our father and priest." Indeed, the Bible finds priesthood and fatherhood inseparably united.

 

St. Paul says he is the father of his Christian converts (1st Thess. 2:10-11). Acts calls Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and David fathers (4:25, 7:2, 8, 14). Paul says Timothy is his son, and he (Paul) is Timothy's father (Philip. 2:22). Reading Hebrews 12:9 reminds us of those spankings we used to get from our fathers! 1st John 2:13, 14 twice calls certain members of the congregation fathers.

 

Every Catholic priest is ordained in Christ to say, "In Christ Jesus I became your father through the Gospel" (1st Cor. 4:15). A priest is sent "to deal with us as a father deals with his children, encouraging, comforting, and urging us to live lives worthy of God" (1st Thess. 2:11-12).

 

 

Sincerely in Christ, Father Mateo

[JPure]

I don't need to go to a confessional because I confess my sins to God. Going to confessional once a year? There's no way I could remember all of my sins for the past year! Why not do it everyday to God, THE ONLY HOLY FATHER. You can call your priest daddy if you want to, but calling a pope Holy Father is just plain blasphemy. Your verses are referring to human adopted-like fathers. That's why it says "father and priest". If they weren't two different things then one title would have sufficed. It's the exaltation, and yes, "worship" of a MAN you call Holy Father which is very disturbing in this particular debate.

[Easton]

Did you just read the thing I put up here about calling priests father? When have Cahtolics worshiped the holy father? Give me one instance, in modern times. You go to confess once a year but you also ask God for help and forgiveness everyday. Look I am done, I am going to talk to a wall now, at least I will be able to see the wall.

[JPure]

Good idea! I think I will do the same!

 

Your pope is not a or the HOLY father, God is. This sounds very simple to me; therefore, I am just as frustrated as you are.:sweat:

[HighRollin8s]

Lets not forget guys that we are all friends and we all share a common ground. However petty our disagreements, we share the same values. We worship the same God we just don't see eye to eye on how to go about worshiping that God. No hard feelings and I'm sorry if I misinterpret your beliefs..........:hug:

[Five0pd310]

What is the purpose of the priest asking you to say *however many* Hail Maries and *however many* Our Fathers?

 

Please don't think I'm bashing or making fun. I'm just curious as to where that came from and how do they come up with their particular numbers.

 

P.S. My beliefs on some of other posters previous questions:

 

People who have not been taught of Christ are still considered children in God's eyes. Therefore will be saved.

 

I do not believe there is a place between Heaven and Hell. There is only Heaven and Hell.

 

I believe that if you DON'T get to Heaven it is because you KNEW what you were supposed to do (believe Jesus is the Son of God) and just refused it.

 

And the only differences between all the different Churches are the signs in front of the buildings. I go to The First Christian Church in Longview. Before that I went to Woodland Christian Church in Longview. Before that I went to Valley View Baptist Church in Longview. I think God was pleased to see me at any of them. And if tomorrow I went to The Quitman St. Church of Christ in Gladewater, He would still be pleased with me.

[HighRollin8s]

God might be pleased to see you on Sunday but I wont if your parked outside my church setting up a "speed trap".....:P

[Five0pd310]

Church happens during the day. I work nights. You're safe. :lol:

[QuadsRight89Out]

Originally posted by Five0pd310

What is the purpose of the priest asking you to say *however many* Hail Maries and *however many* Our Fathers?

 

I'm not Catholic, but I know a good many who are. If I may venture a guess here, I think I could answer your question and quell some of JPure's problems with the church in this matter. I don't think it's the fact that you say 20 Hail Maries that cleanses you of your sin and ensures forgiveness. I think the idea behind it is that while you're saying them, you're actually thinking about your sins and how you won't commit them again. To repent is a three-step process: 1) be truly sorry 2) ask God's forgiveness 3) do not commit the same acts. I think confession and pennance is just a method to help focus on actually repenting, instead of just giving the lip service, "I'm sorry, please forgive me." I'm not saying it's better or worse than the Protestant method, but I think we should all be mature and open-minded enough to see that there is more than one way to get the job done. Confession works for some, but it might not work for everybody. If I have mis-spoken, I hope some of the resident Catholics will correct me.

[Easton]

Five0 - When I was growing up there was a chucrch in Palestine that would have cops directing traffic so their members wouldn't get run over when pulling out onto the road. I never thought this was right. Do they have to request this to happen or did the police get tired of going over there and cutting an older couple out of their car? Does the church have to pay for this service? I always thought it was weird cause they were the only church in town that did this and they always seemed to be snobby cause of it. I thought they were just trying to beat everyone else to the resturants.

[Lhornfan]

Originally posted by QuadsRight89Out

Originally posted by Five0pd310

What is the purpose of the priest asking you to say *however many* Hail Maries and *however many* Our Fathers?

 

I'm not Catholic, but I know a good many who are. If I may venture a guess here, I think I could answer your question and quell some of JPure's problems with the church in this matter. I don't think it's the fact that you say 20 Hail Maries that cleanses you of your sin and ensures forgiveness. I think the idea behind it is that while you're saying them, you're actually thinking about your sins and how you won't commit them again. To repent is a three-step process: 1) be truly sorry 2) ask God's forgiveness 3) do not commit the same acts. I think confession and pennance is just a method to help focus on actually repenting, instead of just giving the lip service, "I'm sorry, please forgive me." I'm not saying it's better or worse than the Protestant method, but I think we should all be mature and open-minded enough to see that there is more than one way to get the job done. Confession works for some, but it might not work for everybody. If I have mis-spoken, I hope some of the resident Catholics will correct me.

 

That is a very mature post. Even though you are not Catholic, you understand that it's not about how many "Our Fathers" or "Hail Marys" one says after confessing their sins. It's all about being sincere in asking for forgiveness. Only you and God will know if you're really sincere. The priest is simply there to guide you through the process and help you if needed. The last three times I went to confession, the priest did not ask me to say any of the prayers, he simply asked me to pray for God's forgiveness and continue to grow in Christ. Going to confession strengthens my faith through grace. It also takes courage to enter the confessional. Only those who go to confession understand what I'm saying. I can kneel at my bed and ask for forgiveness from God without any problems; and be 100% sincere. It is much harder to confess my sins to my priest.

 

JPure - somewhere along the way, someone has really turned you off to Catholics. If it was the Catholic Church, I'm sorry. Not all churches are the same. Just like any other church, it depends a lot on the priest. I live in Malakoff, and our priest is the best I've ever had the pleasure of listening to. So much so that people that live in towns that have other Catholic Churches are coming to Malakoff. I think if you attended just to see what it was like, you would stop bashing Catholics. Yes, sometimes it feels like religious gymnastics. We stand, sit, kneel, sing and pray, but we do it all in the name of the Lord.

[oldowl60]

Originally posted by Lhornfan

Originally posted by QuadsRight89Out

Originally posted by Five0pd310

What is the purpose of the priest asking you to say *however many* Hail Maries and *however many* Our Fathers?

 

I'm not Catholic, but I know a good many who are. If I may venture a guess here, I think I could answer your question and quell some of JPure's problems with the church in this matter. I don't think it's the fact that you say 20 Hail Maries that cleanses you of your sin and ensures

forgiveness. I think the idea behind it is that while you're saying them, you're actually thinking about your sins and how you won't commit them again. To repent is a three-step process: 1) be truly sorry 2) ask God's forgiveness 3) do not commit the same acts. I think confession and pennance is just a method to help focus on actually repenting, instead of just giving the lip service, "I'm sorry, please forgive me." I'm not saying it's better or worse than the Protestant method, but I think we should all be mature and open-minded enough to see that there is more than one way to get the job done. Confession works for some, but it might not work for everybody. If I have mis-spoken, I hope some of the resident Catholics will correct me.

 

That is a very mature post. Even though you are not Catholic, you understand that it's not about how many "Our Fathers" or "Hail Marys" one says after confessing their sins. It's all about being sincere in asking for forgiveness. Only you and God will know if you're really sincere. The priest is simply there to guide you through the process and help you if needed. The last three times I went to confession, the priest did not ask me to say any of the prayers, he simply asked me to pray for God's forgiveness and continue to grow in Christ. Going to confession strengthens my faith through grace. It also takes courage to enter the confessional. Only those who go to confession understand what I'm saying. I can kneel at my bed and ask for forgiveness from God without any problems; and be 100% sincere. It is much harder to confess my sins to my priest.

 

JPure - somewhere along the way, someone has really turned you off to Catholics. If it was the Catholic Church, I'm sorry. Not all churches are the same. Just like any other church, it depends a lot on the priest. I live in Malakoff, and our priest is the best I've ever had the pleasure of listening to. So much so that people that live in towns that have other Catholic Churches are coming to Malakoff. I think if you attended just to see what it was like, you would stop bashing Catholics. Yes, sometimes it feels like religious gymnastics. We stand, sit, kneel, sing and pray, but we do it all in the name of the Lord.

Good post!

[aggiebacker]

The problem with religion is that it tries to put God in a box. Man sometimes does the same thing with other denominations. If you try to put God in a box what you will find is an empty box. What you have seen in the posts on this subject is the reason there are so many man-made denominations.

 

A word of encouragement and direction to all, we aren't going to be a witness to anyone by attacking their church or denimination. JPure's previous post talked about God's Word instructing us not to be a stumbling block. It is obvious to me that whenever denominational shortcomings are brought up it shuts down our ability to communicate. The only way to discuss differences is to do it in a manner that does not attack the denomination or church affiliation.

 

The problem that the religious community has is that if you don't do it like we do it you are wrong. However, the gospel is pretty simple in that Jesus left the comfort of Heaven to be born of a virgin, lived a sinless life on this earth, died on a cross for the sins of you and I, spent three days in hell where He took back the keys of death, hell, and the grave and was raised from the dead three days later. The way we get to heaven is to believe in , trust in and rely on the fact that Jesus did all of this, so that our sins could be forgiven if we ask Him to forgive us.

 

In the New Testament we see the followers of Christ referred to as believers of The Way. As, we have seen in these posts, denominations have been created by man because of diffferent interpretations of God's Word. Nobody benefits when this happens because people start to defend what they belong to and stop looking at who they are. There are many people in all denominations who may never see Heaven, but you never advance God's kingdom by attacking the church they belong to.

 

No denomination is 100% correct because they were all created by man, period.

[aggiebacker]

The question is how do you help someone find Jesus.

 

1Cor. 12.3 Says that no man can say that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

 

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

To help someone find Jesus you explain to them the need for salvation based on God's Word. Roman 13:2 says that there is no one good, not even one. 1 John 1:10 says that if we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

 

Once the need for salvation is established, you establish the way. In John 14:6, Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me. This is why the "good men" that were discussed earlier cannot get to Heaven, I did not say it, Jesus did.

 

Now that we have established the need, and they way, we have to confess our sins and receive what Jesus did for us, individually. I John 1:9 says, if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is referred to as repentance, you confess your sins to Christ, ask Him to forgive you of your sins and become alive in you. 2 Cor 5:17, therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature(species of being): old things are passed away; behold, all things become new.

 

2 Cor 5:17 says that we are now a new species of being. This is a result of the Holy Spirit coming into our inner man to reside within us. Your spirit (nature) has been changed from one of darkness to one of light. The Spirit of God is now alive in our innermost being.

[Five0pd310]

Originally posted by Easton

Five0 - When I was growing up there was a chucrch in Palestine that would have cops directing traffic so their members wouldn't get run over when pulling out onto the road. I never thought this was right. Do they have to request this to happen or did the police get tired of going over there and cutting an older couple out of their car? Does the church have to pay for this service? I always thought it was weird cause they were the only church in town that did this and they always seemed to be snobby cause of it. I thought they were just trying to beat everyone else to the resturants.

 

More than likely they were paying the officers for traffic control. It's very common among road crews and such to keep traffic off the workers. They pay a pretty penny for it. More than regular wages by at least 50% even. But I couldn't answer since I don't know where this was going on or anything else. My guess would be that the church was paying the officers.

[HighRollin8s]

Ahhhh......the good ole days of "special duty". You can make a killing on it.....hehe. Find yourself a nice bingo hall FiveO.......:thumbsup:

 

In regards to aggiebacker, I believe what you quoted was the Apostles' Creed (SP?). I learned it in Christian school. Very good source of information.

I had discussed it with some members of my church and you'd be surprised at the number of Christians that aren't aware of its existence. When I got to the part about Jesus going to hell, they all got REAL nasty. They told me I had no idea what I was talking about until I showed it to them.

It's sad but alot of Christian dont know that that is actually a very important message about their faith. That that saying is a cornerstone to today's church.

[aggiebacker]

There are a number of Christians that do not believe that Jesus was "sentenced" to hell. I do not fully understand how they can correlate this belief but also believe that He bore our sins. As a believer my sins are/were placed upon Jesus on the cross. The sins of mankind that Jesus accepted is the reason that God turned His back on Jesus, when Jesus asked The Father where He was. These sins that Jesus willingly accepted gave satan the legal right to sentence Jesus to hell. What satan did not realize i that hell could not hold Him. Three days later He rose from the grave victorious of death, hell and the grave. Halleluhah!!!

[The Spirit!]

God bless everyone.

[BRAD]

Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through the the Son