2023 District 8-5A DIV II Football Thread

[Mavchamp]

42 minutes ago, THSfanatic said:

Man.... don't even jinx us

Lol. Y’all are district champs.  We’re just fighting for scraps for this train wreck season 

[TINDERBOX]

So what happened to cause the fight on the Mt. Pleasant sideline?  Coaches and players on same team

fighting each other?  Can't see the outcome of this being good especially since they have another game to

play.  Wonder if some will get suspended and could coaches be suspended also?

[Mavchamp]

Texas High (5-0)
Whitehouse (4-1)
Marshall (3-2)
Pine Tree (3-2)
Mount Pleasant (2-3)
Nacogdoches (1-5)
Hallsville (0-5)

Texas High- The Tigers have clinched the district championship and will host a home playoff game.  They close out the season hosting Pine Tree.  They will likely host Terrell in the first round of the playoffs.  It would be a rematch from last year's first round game in which THS lost a shocker in OT to end their season.

Whitehouse- The Wildcats have clinched a playoff berth.  They will clinch the #2 slot with a win over Marshall this week, which would have them hosting a playoff game next week.  If they lose to Marshall they would drop to the #3 spot and would travel in the first round to the loser of the Melissa/Lovejoy game.

Marshall- Mathematically the Mavericks have not clinched, but Pine Tree would need a monumental upset over Texas High knock Marshall out.  Barring that upset and a MP win over Hallsville, the Mavs are in the playoffs no matter what happens Vs. Whitehouse in the finale.  If Marshall gets the upset over Whitehouse, they would claim the #2 seed and host a playoff game.  That would likely be Denison (whom they played in the 2009 region semi-finals).  A loss to Whitehouse will send them on the road to face the loser of the Melissa/Lovejoy game.  Mavs looking to make the playoffs for the 10th time in 11 seasons and 16th time in the last 20 seasons.

Pine Tree-  The Pirates changed their season fortunes with their big win over Mount Pleasant Friday night.  If the Pirates can get the upset over Texas High in the finale....they would claim the #3 slot and face the Melissa/Lovejoy loser.  That would eliminate Marshall and give MP the #4 seed to face the Melissa/Lovejoy winner.  A PT loss to Texas High will put Marshall at #3 to face the Melissa/Lovejoy loser while the Pirates would be #4 and travel to take on the Melissa/Lovejoy winner.  PT back in the playoffs for the first time since 2020.

Mount Pleasant- What a difference two weeks makes.  Two weeks ago MP was riding high and appeared to be headed back to the playoffs with big wins over Marshall and Nac.....but blowout losses to Whitehouse and Pine Tree the last two games have put them on life support.  They aren't eliminated...but they need some monumental help to get in.  First....they need to beat Hallsville.  A loss to the Bobcats would be the end game for the Tigers.  They would also need Pine Tree to get the upset over Texas High.  A THS win over PT ends their hopes  They also need Whitehouse to beat Marshall.  A Marshall win over Whitehouse would eliminated the Tigers as well.

Nacogdoches-  The Dragons' season is over as they have their bye week this week.  Their playoff hopes evaporated quickly Friday night with Marshall's historic 70-40 win over Nac.  The Dragons needed an 11 point win over Marshall to keep their playoff hopes alive.  Instead Marshall hit the 70 point mark for the first time in 96 years (1927).

Hallsville- Been a tough season for the Bobcats.  They have the chance to play spoiler this week when they face MP.  A win over the Tigers would end their dim playoff hopes.  Bobcats still looking for their first district win.... and their second win for the season.

Probable Playoff Match-ups
Terrell Vs. Texas High
Denison Vs. Whitehouse/Marshall winner
Marshall/Whitehouse loser Vs Melissa/Lovejoy loser (PT if Pirates beat THS and Marshall loses)
Pine Tree Vs. Melissa/Lovejoy winner (MP if PT beats THS and Marshall loses)

 

[Mavchamp]

Seems like Mav fans have this discussion every season....and it's something discussed again this year.

I think everyone agrees no one wants a powder-puff non-district schedule.  It doesn't prepare you for the rigors of district play if you never get tested in September.

But you also don't want to get your brains bashed in against teams that are clearly superior.

Every season Marshall seems to limp through a (1-3) non-district schedule before getting into district play.  Playing the likes of Longview, Carthage, Tyler, New Caney, McKinney North, Shadow Creek.  All of those schools are either 6A or 5A Div I outside of Carthage.  All significatly bigger schools.... 

Haven't beat Longview since 2015.  Haven't beat Carthage since the series resurrected and have only had 1 competitive game.  Split with Tyler in competitive games.  Split with New Caney in competitive games; inexplicably beat McKinney North twice.  Lost to Shadow Creek on a last min hail Mary.

How different would the feel of this Maverick team be if they were (6-3) right now instead of (4-5)?  Maybe even (7-2) with the right schedule with lone losses to THS and MP.

Are all those lumps Vs. Tyler, Longview, and Carthage worth it?  Or would some more competitive match-ups benefit the team more....at least intellectually?  How much more confident would these players be headed into the WH game...or the playoffs if we were (6-3) or (7-2) instead of carrying those big losses to Longview and Carthage?  

I have mixed feelings.  I do believe iron sharpens iron.  But I'm also no fool.  Longview is simply another level.  Their domination of Marshall isn't anything special.  They've been dominating everyone in East Texas the same way for a long long time now.  So why not move on? 

Why not play other good 5A Div II teams?  Go play Huntsville...or Nederland.... PNG....Ennis....Everman?

Or find some good local 4A Div I teams like Kilgore or Chapel Hill.....

Like I said.....I'm not wanting a powder-puff schedule.  That doesn't help.  But at least play teams that make sense.  It's a fine line to walk.  Feels like we've let tradition trump what's best for the program.

Past coaches were so much better at this than what we've seen the last 10-15 years.  Bill Harper was a master at pulling together tough non-district schedules....but with TOUGH....COMPETITIVE games.  Monroe Ouachita, Monroe Neville, Shreveport Byrd

 

[Mavchamp]

 

[IndependentContractors]

On 10/28/2023 at 2:33 PM, Ace said:

The third quarter was about the best Texas High has looked on offense all season.    Overall the offense is a little less consistent than I would like for it to be, but even when they are not in peak form, they have several weapons on offense that can pop one for a quick TD.   #1, #3, #4, #13 and others are dangerous.   Defense can look great for stretches, and then let a receiver go uncovered for no apparent reason, or let a back take a quick toss and turn it up the sideline for 50 yards.  

I agree. Texas High really looked solid on both sides of the ball.  Of course, recovering three (maybe four) Whitehouse turnovers (including an interception by one of the Tigers defensive linemen) also helped make the score even better for the Tigers.  Their # 3 and # 4 were speedy running backs that fought all night.

What I found funny (and I have no dog in this hunt as I am from Longview), was I was listening to the Whitehouse broadcast on the internet while at the game.  I do not think I have ever heard any bigger homers and individuals that do not know the rules (other than maybe Gilmer's broadcast team sometimes) than the ones from Whitehouse.  Any time the QB from Whitehouse had an incompletion, all you heard was, "that was interference!"  Again, no dog in the hunt (I just knew this was the biggest game in East Texas last Friday and wanted to see a good game and I knew the Lobos would handle Tyler easily). They complained about literally every play and every call.  I just thought the consistent whining by the internet broadcasters about the officials and even more so, the Texas High coach was funny, yet very sad.

With that said, Whitehouse has some very good players and is well-coached, as does Texas High. It would be nice to see them meet again in the playoffs, but with Terrell, Crandall, and eventually Melissa and Lovejoy down the road, I seriously doubt if would happen.

Edited October 29, 2023 by IndependentContractors

[nacdragon07]

Does Texas high rest their starters?

[Mavchamp]

20 minutes ago, nacdragon07 said:

Does Texas high rest their starters?

Considering their first round melt down last season I’d guess no.

Byes disrupt routines.  I think THS is going full throttle.  JMHO. 

[Ace]

35 minutes ago, Mavchamp said:

Considering their first round melt down last season I’d guess no.

Byes disrupt routines.  I think THS is going full throttle.  JMHO. 

 Last year's team was flat at the end of the year and did not play well against Whitehouse or Pine Tree.   In the bi-district game against Terrell they started out the game okay, but soon lapsed into the sloppy mode and let the game get tied up and then lost in OT.   Coach Stanford will do all he can to avoid complacency.    I think Mavchamp has it right.   Expect the Tigers to go full throttle against Pine Tree.  

[Mavchamp]

54 minutes ago, Ace said:

 Last year's team was flat at the end of the year and did not play well against Whitehouse or Pine Tree.   In the bi-district game against Terrell they started out the game okay, but soon lapsed into the sloppy mode and let the game get tied up and then lost in OT.   Coach Stanford will do all he can to avoid complacency.    I think Mavchamp has it right.   Expect the Tigers to go full throttle against Pine Tree.  

Coach Stanford isn’t Randy MCFarlin.

Full throttle! 

[Mudgrip]

Any idea whose these 2 are ? Spotted at WH vs TH Friday 

[THSfanatic]

3 hours ago, IndependentContractors said:

I agree. Texas High really looked solid on both sides of the ball.  Of course, recovering three (maybe four) Whitehouse turnovers (including an interception by one of the Tigers defensive linemen) also helped make the score even better for the Tigers.  Their # 3 and # 4 were speedy running backs that fought all night.

What I found funny (and I have no dog in this hunt as I am from Longview), was I was listening to the Whitehouse broadcast on the internet while at the game.  I do not think I have ever heard any bigger homers and individuals that do not know the rules (other than maybe Gilmer's broadcast team sometimes) than the ones from Whitehouse.  Any time the QB from Whitehouse had an incompletion, all you heard was, "that was interference!"  Again, no dog in the hunt (I just knew this was the biggest game in East Texas last Friday and wanted to see a good game and I knew the Lobos would handle Tyler easily). They complained about literally every play and every call.  I just thought the consistent whining by the internet broadcasters about the officials and even more so, the Texas High coach was funny, yet very sad.

With that said, Whitehouse has some very good players and is well-coached, as does Texas High. It would be nice to see them meet again in the playoffs, but with Terrell, Crandall, and eventually Melissa and Lovejoy down the road, I seriously doubt if would happen.

After reading your post I went back and watched the Whitehouse feed of the game    You were definitely not exaggerating the whining on almost every call.  That was embarrassing 

[nacdragon07]

6 hours ago, Mavchamp said:

Seems like Mav fans have this discussion every season....and it's something discussed again this year.

I think everyone agrees no one wants a powder-puff non-district schedule.  It doesn't prepare you for the rigors of district play if you never get tested in September.

But you also don't want to get your brains bashed in against teams that are clearly superior.

Every season Marshall seems to limp through a (1-3) non-district schedule before getting into district play.  Playing the likes of Longview, Carthage, Tyler, New Caney, McKinney North, Shadow Creek.  All of those schools are either 6A or 5A Div I outside of Carthage.  All significatly bigger schools.... 

Haven't beat Longview since 2015.  Haven't beat Carthage since the series resurrected and have only had 1 competitive game.  Split with Tyler in competitive games.  Split with New Caney in competitive games; inexplicably beat McKinney North twice.  Lost to Shadow Creek on a last min hail Mary.

How different would the feel of this Maverick team be if they were (6-3) right now instead of (4-5)?  Maybe even (7-2) with the right schedule with lone losses to THS and MP.

Are all those lumps Vs. Tyler, Longview, and Carthage worth it?  Or would some more competitive match-ups benefit the team more....at least intellectually?  How much more confident would these players be headed into the WH game...or the playoffs if we were (6-3) or (7-2) instead of carrying those big losses to Longview and Carthage?  

I have mixed feelings.  I do believe iron sharpens iron.  But I'm also no fool.  Longview is simply another level.  Their domination of Marshall isn't anything special.  They've been dominating everyone in East Texas the same way for a long long time now.  So why not move on? 

Why not play other good 5A Div II teams?  Go play Huntsville...or Nederland.... PNG....Ennis....Everman?

Or find some good local 4A Div I teams like Kilgore or Chapel Hill.....

Like I said.....I'm not wanting a powder-puff schedule.  That doesn't help.  But at least play teams that make sense.  It's a fine line to walk.  Feels like we've let tradition trump what's best for the program.

Past coaches were so much better at this than what we've seen the last 10-15 years.  Bill Harper was a master at pulling together tough non-district schedules....but with TOUGH....COMPETITIVE games.  Monroe Ouachita, Monroe Neville, Shreveport Byrd

 

I remember the Killeen  Ellison  game in the late 90’s I believe they were state ranked. It would be good to see a Lufkin Marshall matchup again. Haven’t seen that since 01

[Mavchamp]

W5 Midlothian Heritage (9-0)
F6 Kimball/Wilson/Spruce

R8 Whitehouse/Marshall winner
T7 Denison

W6 SOC/Seagoville winner
F5 Everman/Ennis/Seguin

R7 Melissa/Lovejoy loser
T8 Whitehouse/Marshall loser

W7 Melissa/Lovejoy Winner
F8 Pine Tree (5-4)

R6 SOC/Seagoville loser
T5 Everman/Ennis/Seguin

W8 Texas High (9-0)
F7 Terrell (6-3)

R5 Mansfield Summitt (6-3)
T6 Kimball/ Wilson Spruce

What this tells me..... there's no easy roads out of region II.

Texas High
1st- Terrell
2nd- Mansfield Summit
3rd- South Oak Cliff/Segoville loser
4th- Melissa/Lovejoy winner

Whitehouse/Marshall 2nd Seed
1st- Denison
2nd- Midlothian Heritage
3rd-  Melissa/Lovejoy loser or South Oak Cliff
4th- Melissa/Lovejoy winner/ or Texas High

Whitehouse/Marshall 3rd Seed
1st- Melissa/Lovejoy loser
2nd- South Oak Cliff winner
3rd- Midlothian Heritage
4th- Melissa/Lovejoy winner

Pine Tree
1st- Melissa/Lovejoy winner
2nd- South Oak Cliff/Seagoville loser
3rd- Mansfield Summit/Texas High
4th- Midlothian Heritage/ or Melissa/Lovejoy loser
 

[Mavchamp]

10 minutes ago, nacdragon07 said:

I remember the Killeen  Ellison  game in the late 90’s I believe they were state ranked. It would be good to see a Lufkin Marshall matchup again. Haven’t seen that since 01

I wouldn't mind seeing Marshall and Lufkin meet up again.  2003 actually. 

We played the first two years after we dropped down in 2002 and 2003. 

LP was a beast back then.  Coach Southern had just gotten to town and was prepping us for state championship games in 2004 and 2005. 

[TrenchWarrior09]

20 hours ago, TINDERBOX said:

So what happened to cause the fight on the Mt. Pleasant sideline?  Coaches and players on same team

fighting each other?  Can't see the outcome of this being good especially since they have another game to

play.  Wonder if some will get suspended and could coaches be suspended also?

One of the people running chains that night said that two players we're fighting, and a coach went to break it up. When the coach grabbed one of the players to separate them the player threw the coach down, thinking it was other players trying to get in the fight. 

I didn't watch the game this week, but my thoughts on this are this, to be where Mt Pleasant was a couple weeks ago this game had to be frustrating and I'm sure tempers were high, but you gotta be able to control emotions better than that. All that mess on the sideline did was make for an uncomfortable bus ride home, I would hate to be at practice today. The amount of gashers, snakes, and bear crawls would be brutal, and now it's in the low 40s.  

[budmanmpfan]

1 hour ago, TrenchWarrior09 said:

One of the people running chains that night said that two players we're fighting, and a coach went to break it up. When the coach grabbed one of the players to separate them the player threw the coach down, thinking it was other players trying to get in the fight. 

I didn't watch the game this week, but my thoughts on this are this, to be where Mt Pleasant was a couple weeks ago this game had to be frustrating and I'm sure tempers were high, but you gotta be able to control emotions better than that. All that mess on the sideline did was make for an uncomfortable bus ride home, I would hate to be at practice today. The amount of gashers, snakes, and bear crawls would be brutal, and now it's in the low 40s.  

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they went ahead ad forfeited the game against Hallsville and end the season. But Cluley may not considering they have a slim to none chance of making the playoffs.

[IndependentContractors]

10 hours ago, THSfanatic said:

After reading your post I went back and watched the Whitehouse feed of the game    You were definitely not exaggerating the whining on almost every call.  That was embarrassing 

Out of an interest in fairness, I watched the Texarkana broadcast and was very impressed with the commentary (seems to have been some actual professionals rather than just a bunch of guys who have wished they were Joe Buck).  They never whined about a call or lack of call (seemed that the officials let both teams play), when there was a question about a call, they were certain to explain what happened.  Again, doing so in a non-biased manner.

Both team’s offenses were good, but Texas High was much, much better on defense and that made a huge difference.

[TrenchWarrior09]

2 hours ago, budmanmpfan said:

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they went ahead ad forfeited the game against Hallsville and end the season. But Cluley may not considering they have a slim to none chance of making the playoffs.

I would not be surprised either...Idk how i'd handle that, what do they have in upcoming players (underclassmen)? Maybe make an example of the locker room headaches (bench them) start some of the underclassmen to gain some experience for FNL. I'm surprised at how quickly the MP Momentum shifted. 

[bordertown]

5 hours ago, IndependentContractors said:

Out of an interest in fairness, I watched the Texarkana broadcast and was very impressed with the commentary (seems to have been some actual professionals rather than just a bunch of guys who have wished they were Joe Buck).  They never whined about a call or lack of call (seemed that the officials let both teams play), when there was a question about a call, they were certain to explain what happened.  Again, doing so in a non-biased manner.

Both team’s offenses were good, but Texas High was much, much better on defense and that made a huge difference.

Watched game on Texarkana Gameday with the sound off while watching the Rangers w/ sound. I believe one of the announcers played on the 2002 state championship team, started for the Arkansas Razorbacks, and was an excellent offensive line coach for the Tigers. He knows football, the rules, and the Tiger tendencies. He does a good job unless the game gets out of hand and starts talking wrestling and not the game. The filming is done by THS students.

[budmanmpfan]

22 hours ago, IndependentContractors said:

I agree. Texas High really looked solid on both sides of the ball.  Of course, recovering three (maybe four) Whitehouse turnovers (including an interception by one of the Tigers defensive linemen) also helped make the score even better for the Tigers.  Their # 3 and # 4 were speedy running backs that fought all night.

What I found funny (and I have no dog in this hunt as I am from Longview), was I was listening to the Whitehouse broadcast on the internet while at the game.  I do not think I have ever heard any bigger homers and individuals that do not know the rules (other than maybe Gilmer's broadcast team sometimes) than the ones from Whitehouse.  Any time the QB from Whitehouse had an incompletion, all you heard was, "that was interference!"  Again, no dog in the hunt (I just knew this was the biggest game in East Texas last Friday and wanted to see a good game and I knew the Lobos would handle Tyler easily). They complained about literally every play and every call.  I just thought the consistent whining by the internet broadcasters about the officials and even more so, the Texas High coach was funny, yet very sad.

With that said, Whitehouse has some very good players and is well-coached, as does Texas High. It would be nice to see them meet again in the playoffs, but with Terrell, Crandall, and eventually Melissa and Lovejoy down the road, I seriously doubt if would happen.

Agreed on the Whitehouse broadcast team. I had yo watch their broadcast when they played at MP. They are very much homers and always say something about officiating when it doesnt goes the Wildcats way. 

[Ace]

9 hours ago, IndependentContractors said:

Out of an interest in fairness, I watched the Texarkana broadcast and was very impressed with the commentary (seems to have been some actual professionals rather than just a bunch of guys who have wished they were Joe Buck).  They never whined about a call or lack of call (seemed that the officials let both teams play), when there was a question about a call, they were certain to explain what happened.  Again, doing so in a non-biased manner.

Both team’s offenses were good, but Texas High was much, much better on defense and that made a huge difference.

The Texarkana broadcast team did not dwell on any of the calls and, as you said, complimented the officials on letting both teams play, but they did have a short outburst when the official flagged a Texas High ballcarrier for targeting when he put his head down to absorb a hit from a Whitehouse tackler. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Ace

[THSfanatic]

3 hours ago, Ace said:

but they did have a short outburst when the official flagged a Texas High ballcarrier for targeting when he put his head down to absorb a hit from a Whitehouse tackler. 

Yes they did.   But to their credit the Whitehouse announcers said they had never seen that called either.  It was a very strange call to say the least 

[bordertown]

11 hours ago, THSfanatic said:

Yes they did.   But to their credit the Whitehouse announcers said they had never seen that called either.  It was a very strange call to say the least 

And he was allowed to stay in the game! Unless there is an exception for the ball carrier, thought you were out the rest of the game (happened in 1st half). It was a head scratcher call.

[Ace]

2 hours ago, bordertown said:

And he was allowed to stay in the game! Unless there is an exception for the ball carrier, thought you were out the rest of the game (happened in 1st half). It was a head scratcher call.

I couldn't understand exactly what the referee said when he announced the call, but he used some sort of descriptive term prior to the word targeting.   He said "_________ targeting, #4".     Did anyone else catch what he said?